Monday, October 27, 2008

By The Power Of His Word

I would like to pose a few questions to my readers:

Established in LDS theology is the idea that before this world, we lived as spirits in the pre-earth life. There, we did not have physical bodies, but we were spirits. We also know that all spirit is actually matter, but more fine or pure.

We have some limited knowledge of what went on there. There was a plan put forward, some accepted it, and some rejected it. There was a great council, and so on.

For all of this to happen, we would have had to been able to communicate with each other. In this life a large part of our communication is spoken. We take air and modify it into varying waves or patterns. We can do this in our throats, or by machine. These spoken patterns have meaning. Our written words indicate, symbolize, or even attempt to mock our spoken words.

Speaking is placing intelligence into discernable and transferable patterns.

In the pre-earth life, how did we communicate? Did we breath a finer air and make intelligent patterns similar to what we do here?

What kinds of patterns of intelligence would we expect to see there? Light? Sound? Something else?

Christ is known as the “Word.” The “Logos.” He was the creator of the world. Was it by the patterns of intelligence that He created? Did these patterns make up the “spiritual creation” that is the foundation of physicality?

The Sepher Yetzirah teaches that all things that exist are founded upon “letters” or parts of speech, along with the numbers.

“Ten are the numbers, as are the Sephiroth, and twenty-two the letters, these are the Foundation of all things. Of these letters, three are mothers, seven are double, and twelve are simple. “(Chapter 1:1)

What say ye?


T.R. said...

I have always wondered how exactly spirit bodies differ from physical bodies in terms of our day-to-day lives. Can we walk? Talk? Smell?

My current (and probably incorrect) crazy theory is that the subconscious mind is the spirit while the conscious mind is not, and that's why reason and gut feelings sometimes conflict with each other (spirit lusting against the flesh, and so on).

Whatever it is, I think we will be shocked at how different it is than we envision.

JayFlow22 said...

I think instead of making sound by vibrating air in our throats...we would have been able to communicate whole ideas from one mind to another.

Anonymous said...

Abracadabra- why do you quote from those Jewish Magick Books

Jesus ate after his resurrection, fish with his teeth partook of fleshly beast.

39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

16 Behold, this body, which ye now behold, is the body of my spirit; and man have I created after the body of my spirit; and even as I appear unto thee to be in the spirit will I appear unto my people in the flesh
17 therefore it sufficeth me to say that Jesus showed himself unto this man in the spirit, even after the manner and in the likeness of the same body even as he showed himself unto the Nephites.

Manner and likeness
Body Matter, Spirit Matter, Flesh Matter,

Anonymous said...

The The Sepher Yetzirah teaches that all things that exist are founded upon “letters” or parts of speech, along with the numbers.

No it does Not. please do not quote that Magick book as scripture. Even though that book is in Jewish hands does not make it pure or scripture
( Surely you would like it to be)

Our bodies are of the Nature, Manner and Fashion of our Race, our God and Creator. Our bodily functions seem to be part of our nature, our eyes, ears, mouth, nose, mouth, etc.. are part of us and will be part of us thru out eternity physics and nature can be multi- dimension, as dimension is One only our perception is layered.

What is the difference between the Wizard, the Physicist, the Astronomer, the Astrologer, the Chemist, the Alchemist, the Christian , and the Cabalist? Maybe the God we worship, or was is it our best science in time and perception.

Breadnbutter said...

I don't believe the we needed words or sound waves to communicate, and if we had the proper knowledge and were in tune, i don't believe that we would need them to communicate in this life. The first purpose of our voice is to create music, music is an eternal truth.
So we had to have communicated through our feelings, complete expression without evening having to process it. We know that our body emits and energy, known as an aura. It's possible that through this emitted energy we could express ourselves. I'm also pretty open to the idea of Telepathy. We know that God knows our thoughts, perhaps this is a spiritual attribute that we all possessed or can possess in the flesh through a spiritual gift. Jesus Christ in his ministry demonstrated his ability to read a man's thoughts and discern his feelings, as did john the baptist and peter. In our dispensation Joseph smith displayed his ability to know the intentions of men also. I believe that words are a fallen form of communication, and that within us is the ability to communicate on a celestial level, but we're pretty far off...
It's possible that because of this form of cummunication,there were no secrets. What would you think if everyone could read your thoughts. We would be more celestial beings, because you would not think bad thoughts. We're not currently subject to this. Even if spoken words aren't an eternal truth, thoughts undoubtedly are. It is through his thoughts that God creates, and essentially it is how we create our own destiny.
I hope this isn't too scatter-brained, it makes sense in my head. just throwing it out there.

foozlefop said...

Yes, the word or logos.

Matter relies upon sound/noise/soundwaves to create and maintain it's form or shape. It has often fascinated me that Jesus Christ is referred by this word. Of course, he is subordinate to the Father; he is his mouthpiece after all.

But I can't help but think that sound has an immensely pivotal role in creation.

Cymatics is the study of soundwaves and its properties/affects upon things. Each one of our organs has its own natural frequency in which it is vibrating. When let's say a liver becomes diseased it's natural frequency is disrupted. Basically, it becomes out of tune with the body.

By projecting the the correct frequency into the body through the use of sonar speakers put upon the body, they have seen the body naturally restore it own harmony, ridding itself of cancer and disease. This field of research and study is in but its infancy. So we shall see.

I digress, however, sound in my opinion is how the universe materializes. One must remember that I would imagine even sound is made of a finer/refined substance.
If a tree falls in the forest, everyone know this analogy.
I believe it makes a sound sans a receiver. It has too.

Isn't it possible that the letter are actualized by incantations of sound. There is beauty in the chant, the trance, the swirling dervishes of the Sufi.
We have only scratch the surface!
Any thoughts??

Anonymous said...

The sounds we make with our mouths are immensely important in the Gospel.
Ordinances must sound a certain way to be valid. Perhaps that is a part of the necessary "sound-wave" of creation??

KingOfTexas said...

I once was given a sample of the gift of translation. It was just as you said when I looked at a facsimile and it happened. I understood what I was looking at in a flash. I remember thinking “That makes perfect sense.” I had an epiphany and didn’t even know how to spell it. I was going to see if I could interpret the characters but I wasn’t supposed to. That might explain the different translation styles. I don’t know.

Further The Kingdom said...

Here’s a million dollar question – If you were to die right now, would you qualify for the celestial kingdom? If you’re like many Mormons, you’re not sure. You try hard to be as good as possible, but you still don’t know if you’ve done enough. If the Book of Mormon is really scripture, this hope will always elude you. Alma 11:37 says God cannot save you in your sins. Are all of your sins forgiven? Moroni 10:32 says you must be perfected in Christ, which can only be done by denying yourself of “all ungodliness”. Have you done that? Do you repent on a regular basis? Is so, then it is clear that you sin on a regular basis, since only those who break the commandments need to repent. 1 Nephi 3:7 states that you are able to keep His commandments. In fact according to D&C 25:15, you are required to keep them continually! Since you haven’t done this so far, why assume you will in the future? Of course, we should all try to be holy; but if you think that sinning less will qualify you to live in God’s presence, you are mistaken (Gal 3:1-11). The assumption that good works are required for forgiveness only cheapens Christ’s atonement, making it nothing more than a partial payment. God chooses to justify us by faith. Jesus alone does the “perfecting” (Heb 10:14). God gives peace to those who trust in Him alone. If you don’t have this peace, it’s probably because at least a part of you trusts in yourself. Questions? Visit us at

Anonymous said...

Here is a Billion Dollar Question. Which Jesus do you worship? Does He have a group of "out called Ones" and a church on the earth? What is the Name and Nature of God and the God Head?
Are you "Really" saved with out speaking in the spirit?
Why are there SOOOOOOO many "Christian" Churches are the all the same are there differences that will affect you salvation? One Lord, One faith.
Who decides which Bible based Christian Churches are True and which one are in business of the Devil?

Anonymous said...

I found a Wonderful site on Isaiah!
The site has free lessons on every chapter.
Very well done and in the author’s own voice.
Every Isaiah Chapter has the Analytical Commentary of Isaiah. Enjoy this personable verse-by-verse commentary of Isaiah by well-known Hebrew scholar Avraham Gileadi.

“Dr. Gileadi is the only LDS scholar I know of who is thoroughly competent to teach the words of Isaiah”—Professor Hugh Nibley, Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah. (1. 6. 2003)

“It is my testimony that this man has been brought forward and trained at this time to help those inside the Church into Isaiah, and those outside the Church, Jew and Gentile, through Isaiah into the Church” —Arthur Henry King, author, former BYU professor and London
Temple President.

“Dr. Gileadi has achieved a major breakthrough in the investigation of a book of such complexity and importance as the Book of Isaiah”—Professor David Noel Freedman, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan.

“Dr. Gileadi’s work will render obsolete almost all the speculations of Isaiah scholars over the last one hundred years . . . enabling scholarship to proceed along an entirely new line . . . opening new avenues of approach for others to follow”—Professor Roland K. Harrison, Wycliffe College, Toronto, Canada.

“Only one who is truly at home not only with the Hebrew but with the ancient manner of biblical thought could have produced such an insightful and ground-breaking book”—Professor S. Douglas Waterhouse, Andrews University, Berrien Springs, Michigan.

“Avraham Gileadi’s unsealing of the Book of Isaiah will forever change people’s
understanding of Judeo-Christian religion, lifting it to heights hitherto known only to prophets and saints”—Arie Noot, corporate executive, Edmond, Oklahoma.

“Isaiah Decoded is a huge breakthrough for the seeker of truth—Jew, Christian, Moslem, and agnostic. From an ancient writing, Gileadi has brought to light eternal truths about the nature of God and our relationship to him that have lain buried for centuries in the dust of time”—Guy Wins, fifth-generation Jewish diamond dealer from Antwerp, Belgium.

“Gileadi is the only scholar I know who has been able to express the Jewish expectation of the Messiah in relation to the life and mission of Jesus of Nazareth”—Daniel Rona, Israeli tour guide, Jerusalem, Israel.

“Dr. Gileadi has clearly demonstrated his mastery of the Book of Isaiah and of the scholarly literature dealing with it”—Professor Ronald Youngblood, Bethel Theological Seminary, San Diego, California.

“Avraham Gileadi’s books and tapes take the casual observer of Isaiah’s words and transform him into an enlightened and lifelong student of the Word of God”—Allan and Nancy Pratt, LDS mission president, Toulouse, France.

“Dr. Gileadi has awakened a whole new depth of my understanding of Isaiah’s prophetic message. His books and tapes illuminate the urgent relevance of Isaiah’s writings to our own day”—Becky Douglas, supervisor and sponsor of three orphanages in India, Atlanta, Georgia.

“Dr. Gileadi’s translation [of the Book of Isaiah] is clear and smooth, allowing the reader to appreciate the power and beauty of Isaiah as conveyed in the Hebrew original”—Professor Herbert M. Wolf, Wheaton College, Wheaton, Illinois.

“Gileadi has uncovered an amazing message written in a divine code by the prophet–poet Isaiah. This will give comfort, hope, and joy to masses of people as they cope with the perplexing events now unfolding before their eyes”—Fenton Tobler, thirty years elementary school principle, Las Vegas, Nevada.

Mormon2theCore said...

The words we utter in the Temple follow a very clear kabbalistic pattern that tie them to the names of G-d. In fact when we used Adamic for a portion of the ordinance for those of you that have been endowed long enough to remember, it was very evident. Also recent changes to the initiatory have moved that ordinance from one sephirot to another along the kabbalistic tree of life. In my mind signifying a hastening of the Lords work and the progression of the body of the church closer to Keter the crown.

David Littlefield said...


Very interesting comment, Thanks.

I will need to give this some thought.