Monday, October 6, 2008

How Prop 8 Protects Rights

Here is a very good video about how gay marriage will infringe on our rights:


See my earlier post regarding rights and Prop.8.


RWW said... gay marriage will infringe on our rights...

What "rights" would those be? The right to free education? Similar to what I've said before, if you want to assert your legitimate rights, like the right to withdraw your children from government schools, I support it 100%.

Again, this is disingenuous.

David Littlefield said...


The central right that I see being eroded by gay marriage is my ability to accept that marriage, or to reject it. This loss of rights will manifest in many areas of society. Nobody is fighting to stop domestic partnerships in California, which is currently in our laws, which extend all the same rights to homosexual unions as a marriage. It is our loss of individual rights (and collective rights as in a church adoption agency) to reject those marriages that is being fought against.

While I personally home schooled my children (actually my wife did), many can’t, or don’t want to. As we see in the video linked to in this post, this couple lost their right to attend a public school and opt out of this indoctrination. Why can’t they just opt out? Because there is a larger agenda, and we are no longer free to reject that agenda. And if you think that won’t happen in California, you are wrong. It has been happening in Los Angeles for years under “Project 10.”

We are becoming the chattel of the government. This is not what was envisioned by the Declaration of Independence, or what God suffered to be instituted for this great land (D&C 101:76-80).

Agency is central to the plan of salvation. Giving marriage licenses to homosexual couples seeks to limit our agency. Rights emanate from God, and removing my right to reject homosexual marriage is an unjust infringement.

Hegel taught that if you want revolution, just insert injustice into society. This is the wrong road.


Anonymous said...

So, the issue is the clash of rights -- on the one hand the right of gay people to marry is in conflict, on the other hand, with the right of a parent to determine how a child is educated about relationships? Okay. That seems a fair criticism that could be worked out within the educational system while still legalizing gay marriage. I don't get the problem. The Church still retains its right to define marriage as only between a man and a woman. That seems more important in this case than what the state says. I don't get how equal rights for all makes you feel like chattel to the government.

David Littlefield said...

Anon & RWW:

Thanks for the comments.

That would be nice if that was the way these things work, but it’s not.

You can see it did not work well for the couple in the video.

It does not work well for the people plagued by Project 10 in the Los Angeles City Schools. Most parents don’t even know it has been happening for about twenty years, they don’t tell the parents that their children are being encouraged to experiment with homosexuality.

In our society, laws are brute force. They are not guidelines.

There is no provision in the current law to fix all the incursions into my individual rights as they happen. The contrary is true, the purpose of the law is to force me, and everyone else, to give gay marriage the same honor as heterosexual marriage. As the video herein points out, if I don’t teach my kids the equality of gay marriage, they will do it for me. This is only the tip of the iceberg.

Agency is a critical issue. Gays are free to have a ceremony, and file for domestic rights, nobody is fighting that. The problem is I should be free to accept that marriage, or reject it.

Please see my earlier posts where I reject all licensing of marriage. But that is not where the fight is. We often don’t get to choose where the fight is, we have to deal with what is before us.


Anonymous said...

Yet, in a civil sense, homosexual and heterosexual marriage are (or would be) equal -- Equal in the eyes of the civil law if not equal according to the law of God. And I do think it's a stretch to say that the diversity booklet presented in the video encourages children to experiment in homosexuality. I recall that in the book's illustration both grown-ups had their backs to each other, were fully clothed and were doing fairly banal chores.

Where do you draw the line between agency and anarchy?


David Littlefield said...


Are you suggesting that we are on the brink of “anarchy” by not having our schools teach homosexuality as a lifestyle to our children?

And, I never said regarding the schools, that a “diversity booklet presented in the video encourages children to experiment in homosexuality.” What I said was that in Los Angeles this has been happening for over twenty years within Project 10, and parents are not aware of it.

In Project 10, a group of ladies, well let’s say none gender descript persons so as not to offend, go from school to school. They take the class into a hall and tell them that 10% of them are homosexuals. They do there encourage them to experiment with homosexuality to determine if they have homosexual leanings.

They also pass out information with phone numbers etc. of how to integrate into the homosexual community, should they choose to do so. Who do you think is manning that phone bank?

Project 10 mandates homosexuality is taught in all grade levels, including kindergarten.

This is the mentality, and how thing will shake out across the land if Proposition 8 is defeated.

I truly have no axe to grind with homosexuals. I am very libertarian minded. But this is not about taking rights away from homosexuals, it’s about keeping my rights, such as free speech, freedom to control what my children are taught, freedom of association, and so on.


David Littlefield said...

And, I am already FORCED to pay for public schools, so I can't really opt out can I? I can choose to pay twice, once in taxes, and once in private school. Again, this is all about forcing us to do things we don't want to do. Gay marriage licenses is not about freedom or agency, it is about forcing third parties to be forced into a system, not giving people the ability to opt out.


Anonymous said...

Are you suggesting that we are on the brink of “anarchy” by not having our schools teach homosexuality as a lifestyle to our children?

No, not at all. I apologize for being so inarticulate. I'm suggesting that the emphasis I hear in your argument about agency can be countered with competing claims to agency. If everyone is to exert his/her own agency then we'd have to be prepared for some sort of anarchy. Perhaps I have faulty reasoning. As to Project 10 -- I don't know enough about it; your description sounds ludicrous. And I'm not making the connection between legalizing gay marriage and Project 10. I'm not a Californian. I just find your blog interesting.

Have a good week.


In The Doghouse said...

If the term of marriage is redefined, then will it be the beginning of a redefinition of our society as we know it?

Will we then have to redefine the terms, husband and wife? What of Mother and Father?

Will this then point to a genderless society? How will one ever come to know the reality of a Father in Heaven if we are propagating genderless terms?

David Littlefield said...

Here are a few new videos:

Will same sex marriages hurt others? 1

Sick and tired of intolerance? 2

Are others supporting Prop 8? 3

Will courts overturn it again? 4

Didn't we already vote on this? 5

Don't others deserve the same happiness? 6

Will existing rights disappear? 7

Anonymous said...

I belive all of this is totaly exagerated, 1st of all in all my years of school and all the years of my 6 childrens schooling I have never heard of a school teaching about marriage, diversity in family types, yes, as should be, there are many different family types, single familys being raised by Dad, or by Mom, or children that go back and forth, Interacial marriages, same sex relationships and of course a good old fashion Mom and Dad. The book in the diversity bag was only teaching the children that there are different types of families, it dose not in any way encourage anything, living in America our children will encounter different types of relationships and it is our responsability as parents to teach our children right from wrong, If we do our job then our children should understand what God expects from us and should live by those teachings, as for what you said about prop 10 and students being encouragd to experiment with homosexuality, I have never heard of a school encouraging children to experiment with any type of sexual activity at all, and I belive that if a school is encouraging sexual activity that this should be investigated as criminal conduct. Basicly I belive that we as parents are the primary teachers of our children and no law can change that, if our children are tought by us at home what is right from wrong and we openly discuss that the schools have to say that ssm is equal only because they have to teach what is equal by the laws of man, not by Gods word. Then our children will understand and therefor not be influenced.

Anonymous said...

The book" Who is in a Family" That got that family so upset that the father would get himself arrested. Have you ever really checked it out? because it in no way, shape or form discusses gay marriage or anything to do with sex, all it shows are the very many types of families that there are. It is written for pre-school to first grade children and was written so that children could understand the different types of families in America, it has nothing to do with same sex marriage and is also used in many other schools that are in states where same sex marriage is not leagel, I belive that father taught his children a much worse lesson by getting himself arrested, he should have sat down with his children and discussed the contents of the book and used it as a tool to teach them his belifes on the issues.

Anonymous said...

And yet I am reminded of the church's stance toward African Americans and the priesthood. We are yet again in a circular discussion of why laws should be written because, people are uncomfortable with equality for all. I say get use to it. I along with the rest of society feel uncomfortable with a large part of what is going on in the world. That does not give me or anyone else the right to legislate away any groups right to marriage. The church will have to deal with the consequences of this equality. Just as it had to deal with the equality of African Americans. I would think that a church like the lds church that has suffered so much persecution of its own, would recognize when they are persecuting others.

Anonymous said...

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