Friday, October 22, 2010

Consecration

In the pre-mortal world there was a plan put forward by God the Father that we now call the Plan of Salvation. Lucifer responded to the plan with a counter offer. His counter offer masqueraded as an acceptance, it contained limits and changes to the plan, and was geared to his personal benefit.



Lucifer is the archetype of an non-consecrated heart.



The Law of Consecration is the law of the Celestial Kingdom. If we wish to inherit a celestial glory we need to start demonstrating that we can live this law.



We follow Satan’s example when in our lives we wish to have, or attempt to negotiate a change from the plan. Before this world was created, certain rules were set in place that we must all abide by, that we trust will bring certain results.(1)

When we refuse to live by these rules we attempt to institute our own laws. As we become the instituter of new laws, we think to change the rules in opposition to God’s will. This is called becoming a law unto ourselves. The Plan of Salvation is the only way to Salvation and Sanctification.



“That [whoever] which breaketh a law, and abideth not by law, but seeketh to become a law unto itself [themselves], and willeth to abide in sin, and altogether abideth in sin, cannot be sanctified by law, neither by mercy, justice, nor judgment. Therefore, they must remain filthy still.”(2) (Doctrine and Covenants 88:35)



If someone in this life decides they don’t want the saving ordinance of baptism for example (assuming it has been properly presented to them), thinking that they have some unique relationship with God, and they can have the blessing of salvation, and reject the ordinances, they seek to become a law unto themselves. Thinking they have carved out some special rules for themselves, and that God will have to take them as they come. What they will find is that they will either repent, or be cast off to outer darkness.



A consecrated heart is born of the understanding that there is not more than one plan, and that any counter offer is a rejection of the plan. A consecrated heart doesn’t resist God at some point of opposition (The trials of this world) and in effect say “this is as far as I go” as though they can stop the plan from working upon them. In the throws of opposition, a consecrated heart seeks strength, relief, healing, enlightenment, sanctification, patience, and the determination to endure to the end. A sanctified heart clings to the covenants, ordinances, and the knowledge of the plan.

The temple is where we receive the covenant of consecration.

(1) “There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated— And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.” Doctrine and Covenants 130:20-21.

(2) These people can’t be sanctified by law because they break the laws. They can’t be sanctified by mercy because they reject Christ and His mercy. Justice would condem them. They can’t be sanctified by judgment because they will be judged worthy of outer darkness, being filthy still.

71 comments:

In The Doghouse said...

I realized at one point that when we are given the opportunity to sustain our leaders, when they are presented for a sustaining vote, it is probably in similitude of what the procedure was like in the pre-existence. There was one plan, the Father's. We could either sustain that plan or oppose it. Those who opposed it were cast out. Those who sustained it were given a body and asked to support and uphold it.

I love how everything is a pattern for what we knew before, don't you?

David Littlefield said...

Hey In The Doghouse!

Yes I do!

And it's good to see you stopping by!

David

Anonymous said...

D&C 132
the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines—obey the instructions

I reveal unto you a new and an everlasting covenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned; for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory.

5 For all who will have a blessing at my hands shall abide the law which was appointed for that blessing, and the conditions thereof,
17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.

he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation;

52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, receive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph.

HOW MANY WIVES DID JOSEPH "RECEIVE"?

61 And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood—if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.

in D&C 132 the Mormon God makes merchandise of women and makes them property of men.
"for they belong to him, and they are given unto him"
"But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be bdestroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law."
"and she then becomes the transgressor"

What a twisted mess of LAW speaking in the Name of the LORD

Further "
A consecrated heart is born of the understanding that there is not more than one plan"

EPHESIANS 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should aboast.

Anonymous said...

Galatians 1:6-8
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

The Momon Vision of LAW
1 Building a tower to heaven that you can climb by Reading "Mormon Doctrine" and receiving the signs and tokens to pass the Watchers Angels Sentinals.

Pretending to to Have Special Secret Gnosis of God and The Devil, the Mysteries of The deniers of the Messiah and Living LAWS of Polygamy spiritual wives
These people( MORMONS) can’t be sanctified by law because they break the laws.

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Paul saysEphesians 2:
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby
The TEMPLE
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

The just shall live by faith.

for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight


24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

Anonymous said...

Thanks David for the wonderful post.

It's too bad people attack ones beliefs instead of loving them to the correct faith.

But unfortunately: "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them" Matthew 7:20

Because of this, they miss a life changing message that will increase their faith and love for the LORD.

Doug Towers said...

Anonymous 1

You aren't the notorious cut and paster of "Rock of Salvation" are you? If you are you don't seem to have learnt anything since your last cutting and pasting job.

Your texts are all quoted out of context. It is about time you actually read that Bible rather than someone else's version of it.

I'd suggest you have a good study of Paul's writings.

And note what Christ stated, "not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of Heaven, only those who keep the commandments.

So how does that fit with the saved by grace concept also taught? Simple. We are saved from the hell that is in our conscience from our past sins by the grace of Christ through repentance. Yes, our works can't save us from our past sins. But to get into the kingdom of heaven requires obedience to commandments.

Ordinances such as baptism and communion/sacrament are essential. Jesus Christ told his disciples that we can't get to heaven without eating his body and drinking his blood. So you either deny the importance of this or accept that ordinances are important.

I should add that in all my years in the church I have only had occassional glances at the book "Mormon Doctrine" by Bruce R. McConkie. He's been persuaded to change it so many times by other people's opinions that it doesn't represent his thoughts anymore anyway. So why you brought that up is anyone's guess.

As to a women belonging to a man I'd suggest you read Paul and Peter. Sarah called Abraham, "Lord" (1 Pet 3:6). Wives in subjection to husbands (1 Tim 2:12-13, Eph 5:24, 1 Pet 3:1). Husband rules over wife (Gen 3:16).

As to plural marriage the Bible is full of it. The Law given to Moses even demands it in certain circumstances. David was informed by God that he gave him wives. Jesus Christ said nothing about any change to having only one wife. And while Paul is misinterpreted as saying that some administrators should have one wife, 1. That doesn't mean one only. 2. That word is also interpreted as first in some other Biblical passages, meaning they shouldn't be divorced. A better rendering I think.

Anonymous said...

Jacob 2:27
27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none

Is That what Paul was trying to say?

23 But the word of God burdens me because of your grosser crimes. For behold, thus saith the Lord: This people begin to wax in iniquity; they understand not the scriptures, for they seek to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms, because of the things which were written concerning David, and Solomon his son.
24 Behold, David and aSolomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.

Now as for being Saved by Grace

This next D&C 132
26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, saith the Lord God.
1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory.

So does learning a few SECRETS save you or is it endurance to the end?
It is Not a graceful scripture, has nothing to do with keeping the commandments

Soooo why don't you again read the scripture you quoted
"not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of Heaven, only those who keep the commandments. D&C132????????????

Doug Towers said...

Anonymous

Well, you have actually written something with a bit of meat in it. Good on you.

God's statement in Jacob is a bit of a simplistic statement. If he were really serious that those in Jerusalem were unsuccessful at plural marriage to that degree, he would have told prophets there to change the law.

His statement really means that the descendants of Lehi would be so unrighteous that THEY shouldn't practice it.

But this doesn't mean the principle is wrong. God told the Israelites to love their neighbors but hate their enemies. Yet Christ taught to love both. So which is right? The answer is that it depends on the righteousness of the people you are presenting the concept to.

D&C 132 is presented to people who should be better spiritually than those descendants of Lehi. And what does it mean that we don't practice it today? I'll let you work that one out.

In regard salvation by learning a few secrets (as you term it). Christ gave higher secrets in the sermon on the mount and then said, so you can now be perfect. These secrets put us in a position to live the type of life that allows us to gain eternal life. The secrets themselves will not give us life. But the application will.

Anonymous said...

D&C 132 is presented to people who should be better spiritually than those descendants of Lehi. And what does it mean that we don't practice it today? I'll let you work that one out.

Deceive:to mislead or falsely persuade others; practice deceit: an engaging manner that easily deceives. cozen, dupe, fool, gull, hoodwink, trick, defraud, outwit, entrap, ensnare, betray. S

I find that the "Saints" can just feel good about anything and then think that it is True.

Good feelings can come from different places in the body, Dopamine (dope} can produce that "feeling"
feelings are not enough!!!!!!

D&C 132
When was it first Published? not received
When was it first Practiced? 1831?????
Was it a Secret Practice?
Are there any secret practices today?

Why would a God command His children to obey such a command that the "saints"
WERE FORCED BY THE GOVERNMENT not to practice?

Not even a full generation ended in full disaster
The "Saints" and the "Brethern" were not of the mind of God.
In the end and unto this day a curse upon Mormonism.

Where was the Will and Mind of God on this Matter and where was the Mind and Will of the "saints"
not in the same place at the same time.

Doug Towers said...

Anonymous

You've let yourself down miserably. You had just started ot show some sensible conversation and now you've reverted back to unsubstanciated claims and poor interpretations.

You need to open your mind.

Your second paragraph makes you sound like a crack pot. It is nothing but inuendo. You haven't presented anything in it to support it.

You have a great hang-up on this plural marriage, which the Bible COMMANDS in certain circumstances in the law of Moses. How can you therefore wish to crucify LDS people for practicing it? and since when does God command us to obey everything a government says we must do or believe?

If there are secret practices today then they must be only practiced by almost no one as we don't know about them. And if God has commanded them (and this is all supposition) then I hope they do well at whatever it is.

Anonymous said...

I would recommend a reading of the Book of Jacob

Jacob 2:34
ye have come unto great condemnation; for ye have done these things which ye ought not to have done.

www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/

en.wikipedia.org/wiki
/List_of_the_wives_of_Joseph_Smith,_Jr.

www.lds-mormon.com/12117.shtml

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h0Ggt-Yn4M

www.josephsmithspolygamy.com

Joseph Smith Had 33 wives at least
12 "rescued " TEENAGERS
10 married wives
10 wives over 30 years of age
I guess you could call that exaltation!!!!!!!

D&C 132: 4 ye damned; for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory.

Mormonism V/S Mormonism
D&C 132: 1, 38-39, 55
I, the Lord, justified my servants David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines—
V/S
they understand not the scriptures, for they seek to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms, because of the things which were written concerning David, and Solomon his son.
24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.

33 For they shall not lead away captive the daughters of my people because of their tenderness, save I shall visit them with a sore curse, even unto destruction; for they shall not commit whoredoms, like unto them of old, saith the Lord of Hosts.

Mosiah 11: 2, 4, 14
2 For behold, he did not keep the commandments of God, but he did walk after the desires of his own heart. And he had many wives and concubines. And he did cause his people to commit sin, and do that which was abominable in the sight of the Lord. Yea, and they did commit whoredoms and all manner of wickedness.

Polygamy is Not Disputed if the Lord so wills it. What is disputed is The Mormons Practice of Perversion

Jer. 29: 6, 23 have committed adultery with their neighbours’ wives, and have spoken lying words in my name

Jacob 3: 5 for they have not forgotten the commandment of the Lord, which was given unto our father—that they should have save it were one wife, and concubines they should have none

D&C 42: 22
22 Thou shalt love thy wife with all thy heart, and shalt cleave unto her and none else.

Anonymous said...

`You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God.

I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance....
Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

www.mormon-polygamy.org/nancy_rigdon_polygamy

the husbands of one wife
the husband of one wife

Apr 1844 - William Law, who, along with Sidney Rigdon, was a counsellor to the prophet, was excommunicated in April 1844 for opposing polygamy

www.mormon-polygamy.org/nancy_rigdon_polygamy

solomonspalding.com/docs/exposit1.htm

This scripture remained in the LDS canon until 1876.
From 1835 to 1876, D&C section 101 verse 4 read

"Inasmuch as this Church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication and polygamy, we declare that we believe that one man should have one wife, and one woman but one husband, except in the case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again."(History of the Church, vol. 2, pg. 247)

en.fairmormon.org/Polygamy
/1835_Doctrine_and_Covenants_denies_polygamy

The general body of the church were informed about polygamy in 1852, at which time many practiced it because leaders like Brigham professed the necessity of it for exhaltation.

How did the members justify practicing this that was expressly forbidden in their own scriptures?

Since 132 contradicted 101:4, 101:4 was removed in 1876, when section 132 was placed in the new edition.

Did Brigham Young tell the members to ignore this scripture? Did his current teachings trump canonized scripture?

REPENT REPENT

Anonymous said...

I am Done with the subject of
MORMON POLYGAMY

Only I leave you this steak

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism_and_polygamy

Doug Towers said...

Anonymous

Well at least you're back to trying to make what you say sound sensible.

D&C 132 is speaking about the wives God gave to David and Solomon; while Jacob is speaking about the laws they

broke in the process. David murdered a man after having committed adultery with his wife.

Solomon married Gentiles and took his wife collecting to an extreme (1,000 women)- things the Law of Moses commanded against.

The statements in Jacob about tender feelings are to do with the laws that were not obeyed by some Israelites. The law of Moses gave rights to wives that were being ignored.

D&C 42:22 was given as a general rule for the church. It is the same as all the rest of the backward laws that are re-iterated in the D&C. The OT and NT differences in law demonstrate that God gives different people different laws. There becomes a time for laws to change according to obedience.

Your version of D&C 101 doesn't state what you claim. It states that a man should have one wife. But in regard to women it states that they should ONLY have one husband. You have presumed the implication that a man having one
wife won't have more also. Perhaps such an inference was intended to disguise the real belief.

Even an idiot should even be able to work out that more women will be in heaven than men. That is something I noticed long ago when I was a Protestant myself. It didn't take Brigham to teach me that one.

God commanded prefect people to have children in the Garden of Eden before they fell. So as that is God's intent then when we are perfect again we should obviously continue with his original commandment. So with far more women than men how can we without plural marriage? It is a man's responsibility to put aside his personal desires and marry as many women as he can cope with - most men have trouble coping with one.

Anonymous said...

3 Talk no more so exceeding proudly; let not arrogancy come out of your mouth: for the Lord is a God of knowledge, and by him actions are weighed.

The fear of the Lord is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

"Well at least you're back"
"Well, you have actually written something with a bit of meat in it. Good on you."
"Even an idiot"

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Because the afoolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

Doug Towers said...

Anonymous

You seem to feel that every second time you write things they shouldn't make any sense. So here is my reply, and hopefully you will say something that can be discussed next time.

Anonymous said...

For some a Reposting of the Word of God is not good enough,a retelling of the word of God is better than my own words. Babel on and on and on !!!!!!! if the scriptures were not good enough neither is my word and I prefer the scriptures,

Jude
17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

The Lord rebuke thee.

Doug Towers said...

Anonymous

My guess would be that you have some problem that you feel inadequate to take on living righteously. Usually it is masturbation or some similar sex problem.

You can overcome these problems. I'd suggest such books as "the Power of Positive thinking." Which was written by a Protestant minister by the way.

I would also suggest you read my site on dealing with your problem.

You just have the symptoms of a person wishing to point the finger at someone other than yourself. It is you that your finger is really pointing at. This is very evident from your inability to stay on subject. You are afraid of examination. I would at least adise you to go and talk your problem over with someone qualified.

Abstain from fleshly lusts that war against the soul.

Anonymous said...

Doug Towers You would Kill Jesus and make a personal attack on the truth.

Masonry, Polygamy, The Fall, not personal attacks those are my issues, if you are looking to engage in personal attacks that is not my style,

It you are looking to give personal advice I would recommend a different blog.
"Doctor Laura"
"Ann Lander"
and other feel good sites.

Stay on Target "Mormonism"

Joseph Smith and his 33 Wifes

My guess would be that Joseph had some problem that Makes you feel inadequate to take on living righteously. Usually it is masturbation or some similar sex problem. Polygamy

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism_and_polygamy

www.giveshare.org/family/polygamy.html

Mason Mormon Blood oaths
33 ¶ Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God’s throne:
35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

Polygamy www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/

Jacob 2:27
27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none

1835 D&C section 101 verse 4 read

"Inasmuch as this Church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication and polygamy, we declare that we believe that one man should have one wife, and one woman but one husband, except in the case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again."(History of the Church, vol. 2, pg. 247)

Doug Towers said...

Anonymous

I've answered all this stuff already. I'd suggest a reading of my past comments.

But let me ask you to ask yourself if you have talked to God about your issues? Because righteousness is doing those things that brings true joy inside because they are in harmony with natural laws. All of God's laws are geared to such.

Is it natural that women are happy in monogamy? If so then why do we have real divorce figures (I'm including all relationships entered into as marriages [as God commanded]) must be AT LEAST 95%.

Yet plural marriage situations have a far lower divorce rate. Women in plural marriages declare all the benefits of it from an emotional and physical viewpoint.

While some divorce still occurs women have the joy of sister wives that they can share their problems with. There is a long list of advantages for women. Even for men there is the advantage of having to grow as an individual in serving more wives.

God has commanded plural marriage in the law given to Moses. You still haven't answered that one in your appaisal of God's opinion. You have come up with doctrine that isn't from God nor the Bible.

As to "blood oaths," if they bother you I think you'd best not read GOD'S commands about bleeding animals before eating them, slitting the throat of animals and spraying the blood all over the alter, and Christ's statement about eating his body and drinking his blood. You should avoid talk of baptism which represents burying the old man.

Not to mention killing a pigeon and sticking another pigeon in its blood. This along with killing pigeons every time someone was born.

So it bothers you that God uses SYBOLS that wouldn't be accepted on Sesame street huh?

As to quoting psychology as if it is separate from religion, that is far from fact also. And if I had psychological problems I'd tend to turn to a vacuum cleaner salesman for advice before a psyc, generally speaking. Man can't get that right either.

Anonymous said...

Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed.

And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them.

Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife,
29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
and ye have come unto great condemnation; for ye have done these things which ye ought not to have done.
HOW DID THE SAINTS SUFFER FOR POLYGAMY
1, JOSEPH SMITH WAS KILLED IN A GUN FIGHT.
2, THE MORMONS GOT KICKED OUT OF EVERY TOWN, CITY, AND STATE,
3, THEY LOST ALL BLESSINGS OF THIER "ZION" AND LAND OF PROMISE,
4, THE "SAINTS" WERE SCATTERED
5, JOSEPH'S MOTHER BROTHER WIFE (EMMA) AND HIS CHILDREN DENY POLYGAMY AND ARE ASHAMED
BY IT
6, EMMA SAYS BRIGHAM YOUNG IS SATAN.
7, THE LEADERSHIP OF THE CHURCH WAS PUT INTO CRISIS.
8, THE MAIN DIVISION AND CRISIS WAS POLYGAMY

The Nauvoo expositor laid it out, published by 2nd in command against Joseph Smith
4 And the time speedily cometh, that except ye repent they shall possess the land of your inheritance, and the Lord God will lead away the righteous out from among you.

And do not pretend to think you answer any questions.

The Polygamy of The "Saints" was SIN

"It all depends on what the definition of IS IS"
"It all depends on what the definition of ONE IS"

Anonymous said...

Eph. 4: 18
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

D&C 136: 32
32 Let him that is ignorant learn wisdom by humbling himself and calling upon the Lord his God, that his eyes may be opened that he may see, and his ears opened that he may hear;

D&C 131: 6
6 It is impossible for a man to be saved in ignorance.

Please pray tell
How many wives did Joseph Smith have???????
How many were TeenAgers??????????
How Many were 14 years old???
How Many were 17 years old?????
How many were 19 years old?????
How Many were Married to Living Husbands??????
Why was not D&C 132 published until 1852?????
Was Polygamy a Secret practice???????
Was is so Secret that Emma Smith Denied it?????
Was it the Cause That William Marks, Sidney Rigdon, and other were at odds with Joseph????????

This brick building was located on Mulholland Street on the block east of the Nauvoo Temple. On the second floor of this building was located the printing press on which the Nauvoo Expositor was printed. The destruction of the press was the event which triggered a series of events culminating in the murder of Joseph and Hyrum Smith at Carthage 20 days after its publication.

www.familysearch.org/eng/default.asp

www.lds-mormon.com/06.shtml

solomonspalding.com/docs/exposit1.htm

www.suite101.com/content/the-nauvoo-
expositor-a33335

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_wives_of_Joseph_Smith,_Jr.

www.i4m.com/think/history/joseph_smith_sex.htm

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h0Ggt-Yn4M

mrm.org/joseph-smith-and-polygamy

www.rickgrunder.com/BooksForSale/dc35m/dc35m.htm

solomonspalding.com/docs/1835DnC2.htm#pg000a

Anonymous said...

1 Tim. 4: 1, 16
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devil

THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO ST MATTHEW
CHAPTER 24

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

1 Tim. 1: 4
4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

GIVE HEED

"For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife"

1 Tim. 3: 2, 12
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife ONE ONE ONE not 33
• • •
12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife,

Titus 1: 6
6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife

Jacob 2: 27
27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife;

Jacob 3: 5
5 for they have not forgotten the commandment of the Lord, which was given unto our father—that they should have save it were one wife,

D&C 49: 16
16 Wherefore, it is lawful that he should have one wife,and they twain (2 not 33 not 999) shall be one flesh

Doug Towers said...

Anonymous

I ask you for some authority for your contesting God's demands that some practice plural marriage as commanded in the Bible. In reply you quote me the Book of Mormon. This is curious. Are you telling me that your authority for opposing plural marriage is the Book of Mormon?

You quote the Bible in only 3 passages that appear to oppose God's commandments as given in the Bible. Is this your authority for claiming that God has changed and now opposes plural marriage to the point that it is wicked?

Mia (the Greek word incorrectly translated as "one" in the 3 passages you mention) is a word that denotes the first number. It is translated as "a", "one" and "first" depending on the sentence. The women came to the tomb on the one(?) day of the week.

No the women came to the tomb on the FIRST (mia) day of the week.

I have even read a protestant disputing the right of other protestants to oppose plural marriage using these texts.

If you read your OT you would see that God gave similar commandments in regard those in positions of authority in the law given to Moses. They imply an undivorced wife and husband. Just what Paul was talking about.

The Bible completely refutes your claims to speak in behalf of God on this issue.

As the people of Lehi would have done evil with plural marriage God commanded them not to practice it. This commandment was not given to anyone else.

David and Solomon both did wrong things relative to women. That doesn't make God's commands wrong.

1 Tim 1:4 has nothing to do with doing genealogy, it is to do with people claiming to be sons of Zeus etc. Even protestant writers has explained this one.

As to false prophets arising you will note that Jesus didn't say not to accept any prophets, but he taught how to determine the true one from the false ones. So where are your true prophets?

As to attributing persecution and murder to plural marriage, that is a concept you should think through somewhat. Jesus was also murdered after being wipped, bashed, thorned, and nailed. Peter was crucified upside down. Matthew was battle-axed. Bartholomew was dragged and flailed alive. So according to you is must be because they practiced plural marriage.

And while Joseph Smith was killed weeks after burning a press Jesus was killed only days after casting out the sellers in the temple. Obviously (by your logic) the reason Christ was killed.

Marriage ages in the world vary even today. Many countries allow marriage at any age. And if you look at the average around the world it is legal to marry at between 14 and 16 in most cases. So just because people where you live don't believe in such means nothing in the big world.

At the time of Tutankamen in Egypt (for example) marriage usually occured at 13. At the time of Christ marriage probably occurred around then also. Jesus himself probably married a 13 year old. So I guess you'll want to discard him too.

You ask why polygamy was kept a secret then tell me all these people left because they were told about it. How does that work?

Interestingly you don't mention that Joseph Smith also married women in their 50's. An oversight? Or just one sided bigotry?

If you can't answer from the Bible you belief then what is it? You claim to speak on God's behalf yet have claimed that all persecuted people are from the devil. You have denounced Jesus and his apostles in this act.

You claim to speak on behalf of God yet you denounce the commandments of God in his word, the Bible, and say that plural marriage (commanded by God in His law) is evil.

I have answered ALL your claims. Yet you have answered NONE of mine. So before any more senseless cutting and pasting answer my points against your claim.

God demanded polygamy in the law to Moses. Tell me how you defend your beliefs that it God has commanded evil.

Never mind pointing the finger at someone else. Answer the question.

Michael said...

Hey Doug,

Enjoyed the comments on David's posts and responses to antagonists who post here. Anyway, I am trying to put together a little blog spot about A Study of the Book of Mormon in the Language of Branches. I feel like you would be a great contributor and help me learn more as the group discusses thoughts and feelings. I only have a few introductory posts (informative/interesting though) but will shortly provide the actual study. It is set up similarly to the Gospel Doctrine Teachers Manuals the LDS Church uses. There is plenty of room for question answering, scriptural and quote support, and lots of personal revelation for unique personal growth experiences. Basically the site focuses on using the PaRDeS method of scripture study with the Book of Mormon. I'm still kind of new to this site so I don't know too many people. I invited David on a different comment page and included a general invite for all who are open minded and willing to build each other up. Anyway, hope to hear from you and anyone else.

The site is:

http://bomlanguageofbranches.blogspot.com/

You may have to cut and paste the address to your address bar. I haven't been able to successfully find my page on any search engine. I'm still a newby to blogging. I would comment more on this site, but my lengthy comments don't seem to post for some reason. Maybe Anonymous put a curse on the site. Haha.

Thanks

Michael

Anonymous said...

So where are your true prophets?

Because I Too am a "Mormon" I have No true living Prophets either in or out of the 'Church"
So brother if our nice little "church" is false guess what you do not have any prophets either.

Keep worshiping Lucifer in the Name of Jesus Christ on Dec 25th Amen Ra's Lucifer's birthday , Keep Breaking the Sabbath Day ( 7th Day) sunrise to sunset an Everlasting Covenant!!!! Worship Amen Ra on his day SUN-Day, we are all just good Catholics having us a Merry Time

Come out of The Whore

MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH

"Well Bishop my heart just swells up when we sing those Christ-MASS (Catholic) songs, I love the Christ-MASS lights on Temple Square"

Wake UPPPPPPPPPP

Anonymous said...

"ANSWER THE QUESTION"

MY answer
PERVERTED MORMON POLYGAMY

Here's the Plain Truth About

OLD TESTAMENT POLYGAMY

www.giveshare.org/family/polygamy.html

Here is a brother of Like mind and spirit as Joseph Smith:

Well, the argument for polygamy seems to be pretty solid
www.freewebs.com/innocentdesires/article4.htm

You claim to speak on God's behalf yet have claimed that all persecuted people are from the devil

If you were a little more well read you would Know I was Quoting the words of Jesus
Read
Matthew I am sorry I do not always "mark" my Quotes from The Scriptures
The Book of Matthew is the First Book of the New Testament, there are a lot of the Words of Jesus in there read it.

Polygamy the Mormon curse.
and Banking fraud, Stealing wives, and threatening the people of Zion to take "ZION" by force.

About 1831 secret whisperings of Spiritual Wifery
Secret practice of Spiritual Wifery about 1840
Joseph Smith has 11-15 wives that are Married to Living Husbands

Here is what I Learned in seminary ------

I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments (POLYGAMY)unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.
D&C 132
know this you are Not on the Road to exaltation unless you have your Wives--Repent and Do Polygamy NOW!!!!

And again I Guess the MORMON god was confused because a WAY WAS NOT PREPARED the "Church" was the property of uncle Sam until "Mormon god"
Repented of his Commandment
Not even a generation !!!

Oh and yes I left out the Part about Joseph marring a few old Hags, that did not Bother me its Just Those nice tight bodied TEENS (HEAVEN)

Anonymous said...

"Marriage ages in the world vary even today. Many countries allow marriage at any age. And if you look at the average around the world it is legal to marry at between 14 and 16 in most cases.
"Jesus himself probably married a 13 year old"


Yes and Mohammed was a Pedifile Too 9 years old

How and why was Parley P Pratt shoot to Death??

How about those Married Wives of Joseph Smith????


As to attributing persecution and murder to plural marriage, that is a concept you should think through somewhat.
Jackson County, Missouri
D&C 9719
Surely Zion is the city of our God, and surely Zion cannot fall, neither be moved out of her place, for God is there, and the hand of the Lord is there
D&C 103 13 even their restoration to the land of Zion, to be established, no more to be thrown down.

Read the Mormon wars because of published Mormon threats that in Gods Name and By fore and command the Mormons would Take Zion

Doug Towers said...

Anonymous

You say there are no true prophets. Well I have news for you. My mother has received many prophesies and things from the spirit which have come to pass.

I also have had seemingly endless prophesies and advice from the Spirit which has shown to be true.

While it is true that at first I had teething problems (so to speak) once I got it worked out I have been listening properly ever since. I could write books on all the revelations I have seen come to pass.

So much for no prophets.

You say that the original sabbath wasn't on a Sunday. Now how on earth would you know that???? Were you there when Moses was given the day originally? There were times when Israel discarded the worship of God for many decades. Are you telling me you know that they chose to worship on the same day?

Arguing about what day the sabbath should be practiced on is like debating whether we can kill people provided the knife isn't rusty. The command says work 6 days and rest on the 7th. If God were so fussy about what day it was he would have made some natural effect happen every 7th day so we'd know which day to use.

As to Christmas we all know that Christ wasn't born in December. But as the rest don't we encourage them thinking about him at least one day in the year by supporting it.

As to the OT and polygamy. As I told you God commands it in the law of Moses. How you or anyone else wish to interpret Jacob etc is up to you.

Under the law of Moses I can be married to one wife already, but if my brother dies without leaving issue I MUST also marry his wife. And if I have seven brothers who all go through this I MUST (by GOD's command) end up with 8 wives.

Under the law of Moses I can be married to a woman and if I have sex with an unmarried female I must also marry her and we are never allowed to divorce. It isn't adultery for a man unless he has sex with an already married woman. If I do this a dozen times then I end up with 13 wives (by GOD's command).

I think you need to study your subject a little more deeply than just reading some site on it.

You judge a man you've never met and tell me that he married old women for the heck of it, but married young ones for their bits. What an interesting assumption. Perhaps there's people under the ground in Mars too.

What about Joseph Smith having 23 wives, you ask? What about it? If his revelations came from God, which I know they did, what am I supposed to say? God got it wrong?

Plural marriage has nothing to do with bits if it is done for spiritual purposes. I love women without feeling the slightest bit of lust. You suppose that because you would abuse such a thing that everyone would.

There is a catch 22 in the plural marriage law. You claim that God has commanded against plural marriage now. But I see no such command in my Scriptures. Which set are you using?

Anonymous said...

Sabbath Day-----
Israel used the Lunar TIme in relation to Sunset to Sunrise, People of the night sky setting their TIMES by the NEW Moons,

There is not one scripture that says the Sabbath would ever be changed but just the opposite.
Exodus 31; 16-17
"Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a PERPETUAL covenant. It is a SIGN between Me and the children of Israel FOREVER, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed"

The whole Idea of the seventh day, creation, six days, one/day thousand years, Thousand years day of rest,
"And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God BLESSED the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made." Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it" (Exodus 20:8-11). Remember the Sabbath day

Rome and the Popes with "The Church" changed the days and times of the LORD

'Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a SIGN between Me and you throughout your generations, THAT YOU MAY KNOW that I am the Lord who sanctifies you'" (Exodus 31:13).
Isaiah 56;2
"Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who lays hold on it; who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, and keeps his hand from doing any evil"
Whoever therefore breaks one of the LEAST of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:17-19

Joseph Was blinded living under the traditions of
Sun worshiping Roman Church, Like Dec 25th Christmas, Sun rise of Ishtar/ East Star
Son of the Equinoxes.

Anonymous said...

Polygamy-Brigham Young
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigham_Young
The truth is Polygamy was a Secret Practice among the Early Mormons. In fact the Mormon church lied and covered the Practice, Most Mormons keep it Secret from their Wives.
Emma Smith called Brigham Young Satan,
challenged the evidence and taught that Joseph Smith had opposed polygamy. They instead said that Brigham Young introduced plural marriage.
Emma denied
D&C 132 in fact it was not even LDS published until at least 1852 -1876
"What about Joseph Smith having 23 wives, you ask? What about it?"
WRONG at least 33-45 what do you Really know about Joseph Smith
Many early converts, including Brigham Young,[30] Orson Pratt, and Lyman Johnson, said that Joseph Smith was teaching plural marriage as early as 1831 or 1832. Mary Elizabeth Rollins Lightner, Smith's ninth wife claimed that Smith had a private conversation with her in 1831 when she was twelve.
“ [At age 12 in 1831], [Smith] told me about his great vision concerning me. He said I was the first woman God commanded him to take as a plural wife. ... In 1834 he was commanded to take me for a Wife ... [In 1842 age 23] I went forward and was sealed to him. Brigham Young performed the sealing ... for time, and all Eternity. I did just as Joseph told me to do
/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_wives_of_Joseph_Smith,_Jr.
"But I see no such command in my Scriptures. Which set are you using?"
They changed Yours
1835 Edition D&C section 101 verse 4 read
"Inasmuch as this Church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication and polygamy, we declare that we believe that one man should have one wife, and one woman but one husband, except in the case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again."(History of the Church, vol. 2, pg. 247)
Emma Smith -Polygamy D&D 132
The revelation was not made public to the LDS church as a whole until Brigham Young revealed it in 1852. Young claimed that the original had been burned by Smith's widow Emma Smith, though Emma denied that the document ever existed and said of the story told by Young: "It is false in all its parts, made out of whole cloth, without any foundation in truth." Published affidavits by eyewitnesses accusing Church leaders of following the teaching and engaging in polygamy had resulted in Smith's losing a gun fight by a mob in 1844. The revelation was codified in Mormon canon as part of the Doctrine and Covenants 132 in the 1870s, though it was rejected by the RLDS church as not originating with Smith.[60] Emma Smith said that the first she knew of the 1843 revelation was when she read of it in Orson Pratt's booklet The Seer in 1853.
Please Get This Straight
The Mormon Church was put into a Hell hole with Joseph Smiths Secret Society of Masonic/Mormon
Bloody oaths, Joseph/Brigham tried to Create some Secret Society of their Own, Power, Sex, Fear, Polygamy, Zion, Joseph was an Anointed King to Rule over Zion, (The King who Never Was)
Written accounts of Smith's liaisons are recorded as early as 1831, including Smith's relationship with Fanny Alger (age 16), and with Marinda Nancy Johnson (age 16) in 1831,
“ In the summer of 1831 the Johnson family took Joseph and Emma Smith into their home as boarders, and soon thereafter the prophet purportedly bedded young Marinda. Unfortunately, the liaison did not go unnoticed, and a gang of indignant Ohioans—including a number of Mormons—resolved to castrate Joseph so that he would be disinclined to commit such acts of depravity in the future. ”
Joseph Died and destroyed the lives of many,
Mormons Were Hated for Polygamy, Masonry, Blood oaths, "Mormon Zion" and for being Banksters,
Joseph Smiths Gun fight was Over destroying Freedom of the Press, and for Treason.
He did not die for Jesus Christ He died in a Gun
fight with a Gun in his hand
Being a Mormon I feel for all of my Brothers and sisters of Early Mormonism, I feel sorry that they were All mislead, as was I.

Michael said...

Anonymous,

Sorry to hear about your difficulties with Blood Oaths and polygamy. I am too young for the Blood Oath to have been part of my Endowment, but I have some thoughts that you may consider. I am a little unorthodox when it comes to my approach to the gospel. Meaning only that I don’t just go along with the mainstream voice in local meetings and feel satisfied with Church activity. I really try to find out from God what He has in store for me and try to only teach and share those things which He has told/shown me. This being said, He has lead me on quite the search through ancient and modern methods of theology/theosophy and helped me to see what is beneficial for me and what isn’t. Largely through studying ancient Jewish methods, PaRDeS to be exact, I have come to be able to get the fulfillment from the scriptures (all) that allows me to use them to really have a close personal relationship with God through Christ despite the shortcomings or secular perspectives of any religious associates of mine. All too often though, it seems that the majority of the mainstream voices in a local Church setting and in books written by so-called Mormons are “secular Mormonism” and therefore false because they do not encourage a deliberate usage of gospel principles and commandments to unlock the power of the Atonement for the purpose of obtaining God further as our mentor in the ways of eternal life. Because of this, certain aspects of the gospel lose their power to sanctify and provide a fullness of joy. They become temporal in nature and are no longer godly. It becomes easy to want to content with the Church as a whole because of personal experience with a watered down version of the gospel and an overabundance of secular support.

I would like to try to provide some spiritual support for you to accommodate your concerns about Blood Oaths and polygamy. First off, FORGET EVERYONE ELSE, focus on your relationship with God and how it can be improved. Some good questions I like to ask are:

1. How can this…help bring me closer to the Father so that I can gain contact with Him on a more consistent and frequent basis?
2. How can this…help me to use the Atonement of Jesus Christ more fully as to help me learn how to eventually use it to the fullest measure it was provided for?
3. How can this…help me to feel the Holy Spirit more abundantly so as to help me learn how to eventually obtain it as my constant companion?
4. How can this…help me come to know God more perfectly so that I can become one with Him through the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit?

Part 1 of 3
Michael

Michael said...

I have applied these questions to scripture study when I was encouraged by Stake leaders to only speed read them by a certain date, and I received way more than I thought possible. I have applied these question to Home Teaching when I had obligations placed upon my back by Stake leaders blatantly by virtue of the Stake Presidents priesthood office (against D&C teachings) and I was blown away by feeling the love and intentions that God had for me and the HT families while visiting in their home. Very powerful and intimate experiences with God through the Atonement and Holy Ghost while applying these methods to commandments etc. Was I encouraged to do this by local Church leaders or in General Conference? No. Did God teach me this? Yes. Did I get extremely frustrated with the Church because they don’t teach me the same things that God does, but tend to lean way on the secular/rely upon your own strength method? Of course I did. Does this mean that the Church is not true? No.

But it does bring about the point that the Church has no power to save anyone. Why? Because it is through the Atonement of Christ only, that we are able to feel the Holy Ghost and learn how to embrace God over time unto fullness. However, we can use the Church to help accelerate our progression with God. The Restored and ancient gospel give us special places/times/activities to meet and work with God. They are given by Him. Do men misrepresent God’s fullness and usually present things in a way that seem confusing and frustrating? Yes. Why? Because only the collective effort of the Godhead can teach us God in a manner that allows us to become one with Him. That is not man’s fault, it is just a fact. The fullness of the gospel or purpose of the Atonement of Jesus Christ is the only way. If the Church or man could do it, then there would be some other way. There is no other way. However, God did Restore the Church and He did implement the gospel anciently to help us come together and strive to accelerate eternal progression together. We usually screw that up because we are used to the manner of men. Many people look to the Church as a Savior and become disillusioned when the Church cannot save them. Many local leaders try to do THEIR best to help the members instead of knowing how to put them in God’s hands and truly empower them. People are people. It was a hard process for me to come to grips with the fact that the Church and its leaders could not save me or offer me the mentoring that I desired. But it was good to know so that I could begin to look for God to provide that instead of continuing to get frustrated with the Church. I almost left plenty of times over this or that, but God kept bringing me back.

Anyway, to get to the point about your concerns, I cannot answer you according to history, secular, or intellectual reasoning, but I can offer some suggestions that may help you not feel so frustrated with life and the gospel. Don’t worry about everybody else and their imperfection, just try to benefit from the gospel that best you can between you and God. Ask yourself:

1. How can Blood Oaths help bring me closer to the Father so that I can gain contact with Him on a more consistent and frequent basis?
2. How can Blood Oaths help me to use the Atonement of Jesus Christ more fully as to help me learn how to eventually use it to the fullest measure it was provided for?
3. How Blood Oaths help me to feel the Holy Spirit more abundantly so as to help me learn how to eventually obtain it as my constant companion?
4. How can Blood Oaths me come to know God more perfectly so that I can become one with Him through the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit?

Part 2 of 3
Michael

Michael said...

In reality, all a Blood Oath represents is the flip –side to the eternal life coin. To choose anything else besides strictly adhering to every detail of eternal life, as God makes it known unto you by degrees, is not going to provide you with eternal life. It is a serious thing. Either we walk the path with God to eternal life or we don’t. That simple. If we don’t, however, we have essentially chosen death/ended progression/chosen the path of misery and disappointment. Again, only God can teach us God, so all we can really do for others is to love them the way God loves us and encourage them to bind themselves to Him eternal through Christ and the Holy Ghost. When we seek to do OUR best to get them to keep rules, feel obligated by covenant or commandment, or to only be active in Church, we are implanting concepts within them that will lead to their demise. If we follow our own counsel, we will lead ourselves to demise. As well, if we try to disclose the details of our intimate personal relationship we have with God to others as though we can now do God’s job since we know Him better, essentially we are trying to replace Him as the one who really teaches God. We can encourage others to learn God, but never accurately teach God.

Whether one has taken a Blood Oath or not, it is the same consequence. The Blood Oath just brings to the surface the seriousness of the issue. Either we learn God’s holiness from Him or we spiritually die (stop growing or condemnation). If we disclose the details of God’s personal tutorials with us, either to get gain or to somehow think we can better do for others what they are not getting from God, WE ARE WORTHY OF DEATH. Why? Because we are not only causing ourselves to get off the track to eternal life, but causing others to. The punishment for murder is death. Sometimes we put ourselves above God because we would rather rely on our own strength than trust in His power and gospel.

The blessing of the Blood Oath is that it has the potential to bring these realities to the surface. We may become disillusioned because of how mortals have handled God’s ordinances, but that does not mean that they aren’t beneficial. I have squandered away many years of not understanding the importance of the temple Endowment and feel like maybe the Blood Oath would have helped me take it a little more serious until I was able to grow into an understanding of its significance.

Fortunately we have the Atonement to offer us a buffer as we learn similar to the Law of Moses where a man who accidentally killed another could flee for refuge in special cities. But, the buffer that the Atonement offers us does not change the SERIOUSNESS of doing foolish things with the intimate details God shares with us. IT TRULY BECOMES A MATTER OF ETERNAL LIFE OR DEATH AS IT THWARTS THE ONLY PATH OF TRUE GODLY PROGRESSION.

I hope this may help you to have an increase of the blessings of the gospel in your life. I do not understand all things, but know that as we use everything, positive and negative, to bring us closer to God for the purpose of becoming one with Him through Jesus Christ, He will help us make sense of it all.

We can talk about polygamy later if you want, but you can apply the same questions to it as well. Out of time for now. God bless, I pray that you receive what it is you are truly yearning for.

Part 3 of 3
Michael

Doug Towers said...

Anonymous

I have to agree with Michael that you are really getting caught up in other issues than what really counts. We all know that perfection has to be worked at. The point is for us to become so, not whether someone else made it in our humble opinion.

You are right, I did make a typing error in regard Joseph Smith having 33 not 23 wives.

In regard to Sun worship on Sunday rather than Saturn worship on Saturday that is just fiddlesticks. All the quotes you give are merely demonstrating that we must practice a sabbath rest day once every seven days. Not one of those quotes says anything about it having to be Saturday either.

I wasn't suggesting that they hadn't kept polygamy a secret. I was suggesting that it wasn't much of a secret as so many knew. Emma's denial doesn't match with her treatment of Fanny in public nor many other things that people saw relevant to her. It not being published until they were out on their own is only obvious for that reason (i.e. it was secret).

Your statement from an old edition of the D&C doesn't prove what you say. All it states is that a man must have one wife and a woman must have BUT one husband. Very cleaver wording. Why is that it includes the word "but" only when speaking of the woman?

Secondly it is declared as being the opinion of a person (NOT God) because of legal restrictions only. So this isn't a commandment of God. Nowhere does God command people in this day not to practice plural marriage. So get that one out of your head.

You still are mentioning blood oaths when the Bible is full of them in the law given by GOD.

If you understood the meaning of having used those blood oaths you will feel sorry for those who have to go without them in these days. They greatly helped me in understanding God's message delivered in the temple. You are looking for the negative and making it yourself. Those things have a VERY significant message behind them. I feel sad that you haven't found it.

As to your attempts to sensationalize by going down and down in age and up in numbers of wives, let me say that it all means nothing to me as I know that God knows what he is doing and you don't. He didn't marry a 12 year old. The youngest he married was 14. That is an age where almost (if not) half the countries in the world can legally get married at. So your attempt at sensationalizing is just hot air. Only those who THINK they know that is too young will take any notice of you. In our backward society we train our youth to remain blockheads until they decide they might grow up at 30 and get married and take some responsibility. So I can understand you and your friends having trouble seeing this is a nonsense concept.

There is nothing wrong with marrying an appropriately trained 14 year old. So don't bother with the sensationalizing routine with me. And don't waste your time increasing the numbers of wives because that doesn't cut any ice either.

Do you have something that you can say that you can actually prove God is against? If not what are you waffling about?

Michael said...

I know we have all been commenting mostly about a certain Anonymous lately, but I would like to share some thoughts that I posted on my blog page about the benefits of particular study types. Although it is indirect, I feel that I definitely applies to any true study or discussion of the gospel.

“It also becomes necessary for the student to understand the prescribed path of spiritual attainment, or the correct sequence of spiritual progression. As the student comes to understand the order of the Kingdom of Heaven and how to progress in the prescribed order, it becomes easier for them to travel this path. Each day the student can become more efficient in obtaining progress from one level to the next until they are able to obtain them almost instantaneously. This effort is called the study of the upper worlds. The study of the upper worlds and the study of the language of branches are mutually reinforcing studies, because experience in one sheds light on experience in the other. These two studies help make it easier for the student, not only to understand in more precise detail what is going on within them as they reach the fulfillment of their potential as God’s offspring, but their newfound perspective is applied to the world around them and they begin to see everything in the world as a reflection of what is taking place within themselves. This helps them to care for the various aspects of themselves the way they would care for another, as well as to become as aware of the worlds needs as they are becoming aware of their own. As the intricacies of their intimate relationship with God are increasing on the deepest of levels, the salvation and sanctification that is brought about through His perfect and eternal love is felt sincerely for all of His creations (no matter how seemingly evil or degenerate). The student develops the capacity to desire and work towards the unity of all of God’s children so “that a whole and complete and perfect union, and welding together of dispensations, and keys, and powers, and glories should take place, and be revealed from the days of Adam even to the present time. And not only this, but those things which never have been revealed from the foundation of the world, but have been kept hid from the wise and prudent, shall be revealed unto babes and sucklings in this, the dispensation of the fulness of times” (D&C 128:18). The student then shares with the Only Begotten of the Father in the flesh in declaring, “For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day” (John 6:38-39).”

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Michael

Michael said...

With that being said, it seems that our Anonymous contributor has been on a difficult path for quite some time and is now planning to sever all ties with the Church. This will mean that they will be severing ties with many things that provide unique sacred opportunities when applied with the proper intention. The closer that I come to God, I cannot help but feel His and our Savior's love for this Anonymous child of God and Their desires to help them learn to receive of Their fullness. Although many of us here do not quite appreciate the manner of Anonymous’s delivery, what we are receiving from them is a cry for help. Maybe if we help them to connect with God more fully through Christ and the Holy Spirit through our love, then God can help them work out whatever issues they have with Him. Ultimately salvation comes from God, not us or any of the appendages of the gospel. Although we need to eventually embrace a fullness, the foundation must be build upon God through Christ's Atonement. The true sign that others will know that we are Christians is that we love one another the way that Christ loves us, not because of any doctrines or ordinances that we have been invited to participate in (John 13:34, 15:12).

I love all of you and mean no offense in this comment.
Michael
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Anonymous said...

"We follow Satan’s example when in our lives we wish to have, or attempt to negotiate a change from the plan."

http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks
/captmorgansfreemasonrycontents.htm

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Initiation

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_mahan

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_Mason#Degrees

Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you; or wo be unto it, because of the blood of them who have been slain; for they cry from the dust for vengeance upon it, and also upon those who built it up.

For the Lord worketh not in secret combinations, neither doth he will that man should shed blood, but in all things hath forbidden it, from the beginning of man

For, from the days of Cain, there was a secret combination, and their works were in the dark, and they knew every man his brother.
22 And there are also secret combinations, even as in times of old, according to the combinations of the devil, for he is the founder of all these things; yea, the founder of murder, and works of darkness; yea, and he leadeth them by the neck with a flaxen cord, until he bindeth them with his strong cords forever.

Except ye repent ye shall be smitten, even unto destruction.

Anonymous said...

Lucifer responded to the plan with a counter offer. His counter offer masqueraded as an acceptance

I Need to repent
Matt 5 :33
Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God’s throne:
35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the bcity of the great King.
36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
37 But let your acommunication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

www.caterpillar.org.uk/warning/fmasonry2.htm

www.prophecies.org/DOCS/Book%207
/12judgement.htm

www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth
/lucifers_network_1.htm

Anonymous said...

"They have entered into Satanic agreements with the devil. They have made oaths and covenants with him, which are binding, yea upon their souls and upon the souls of their children."

Look out for the lizards

en.wikipedia.org/wiki
/Freemasonry_and_the_Latter_Day_Saint_movement

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reed_C._Durham

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endowment_(Mormonism)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism_and_Christianity

Look Read and learn

I take my Temple covenants serious, I want to Give them back, It is just i do not believe they were from GOD

Michael said...

Anonymous,

I don't know about that. You once before said that there is a difference between the Holy Spirit and spirits, but it seems that most of the material you reference is from secular sites. They have no claim on the Holy Spirit up front as far as establishing prophetic authority. I do know the Holy Spirit, and I am grateful to have it with me. The Holy Spirit is the one who guides me to the Father through Christ, who helps me feel the great love that they have for me and all of God's children, and the one that changes me in a manner that I understand more and more how much the Godhead wants to help all of us become one with God as We journey together. I have studied many mystery schools, gnostic schools, schools of intellectual knowledge, and schools of hatred/destruction. Before my conversion to God, I was on a path of destruction and knew the power of the Adversary quite intimately. After my conversion to God, I had several run-ins with demonic/deceiving/opposing spirits who sought to destroy me. Only the power of Christ and His Redeeming love rescued me then as well. By nature I am clever and usually can gather enough evidence to support the things I personally think are worthwhile, but God does not work that way with me. He teaches me to love others, humble myself before Him, forget what I thought I knew, and learn from Him how to bind myself to all things in heaven and on earth through the Atonement of Jesus Christ while receiving a fullness of joy. I know that as we have developed from intellegence to being clothed in spirit bodies to being clothed again in mortal bodies, that we have become stretched and dispersed as now we have many recepticles to absorb influence through the things we experience. Any time that I become exposed to anti-fullness of the gospel (so-called anti-mormon and general persecution) material I feel those familiar (evil) spirits becoming absorbed in my various recepticals and have evil/false seeds planted that strive to sprout into wild fruit. I notice it now, but was unaware of what was taking place in similar experiences before my conversion to God. It was much like Moses after God appeared to Him. The experience changed him. When Satan came tempting, Moses could then see/feel/observe though contrast that not only did Satan have no glory, but he was darkness unto Moses. Something he wouldn't have noticed in contrast had he not experienced the presence of God. The sites you reference are anti-God, they are not helping you to draw closer to Him through Christ or the Holy Spirit. They are confusing you and causing your life to tear apart as your heart is failing you. If you truly see many of the LDS people as some of the best among the world and among Christendom, THEN KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUITS. You are torn because Satan knows your desire for the greatest and the purest things. He knows what a powerful force you could be due to your diligent spirit. But he is not leading you down a path that brings you closer to God or empowers you through the Atonement of Christ. You really need to come unto God and let Him heal you. Forget everything you have read LDS and secular/anti. Start from scratch and let God lead you through humbling yourself before Him in Christ's name. Trust Him more than you trust your abilities to remember quotes, references, and verses. Let Him build you up on the ONLY TRUE AND FIRM FOUNDATION.

Part 1 of 2
Michael

Michael said...

If He endorses the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the Book of Mormom, the Temple, and Joseph Smith, then trust Him. Ask Him to cleanse you of all things that hinder you from receiving Him in His fullness and wait to see where He guides you. This is a test to see if you can want God and His fullness more than you want to trust in your intellectual knowledge of other people's powerful perspectives. I know you want to do the right thing. God is the only right thing. Come unto Him through Christ. He will help you sort it out. It is all about Him helping you become like Him through the Atonement and the Spirit. There are many arguments and battles to be fought, but He has not called you to be engulfed and have your precious time be robbed by war. He has called you to follow His Son into the fullness of His glory. Only by doing that, will you be able to defeat Satan and falsehood. You cannot defeat them on your own, no matter how well intended. God's full purpose isn't centered around overcoming Satan. The gospel is centered around helping us become conformed into God's image through Christ's Atonement so that we can be one with Him. Don't let Satan desensitize you by swollowing your noble heart up in a battle that cannot be won by man. Seek God with all your heart unconditionally and trust where He leads you. Don't let pride destroy you based upon intellectual knowledge. God will lead you down paths where you have no reason at all to follow Him other than that you haven't quite given up yet. It is times like those that really help bind us to Him. Even Christ felt forsaken on the cross to help Him choose God when He had no reason to. That is the test of mortality. Do we want to be bound up and sealed up unto God for eternity, even when we have no reason to be? If so, we need to start working on it through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, the power of the Holy Ghost, and the organizations and tools He leads us to. Journeying now will prepare to finish the journey on the other side. You need to prepare to win the race. The best thing you can ever do for anybody is to come to know God with a perfect knowledge and bind yourself to Him through the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. God speed!

Part 2 of 2
Michael

Anonymous said...

James 5: 12
12 BUT ABOVE ALL THINS, my brethren,swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.
Ask yourself:
1. How can Blood Oaths help bring me closer to the Father so that I can gain contact with Him on a more consistent and frequent basis?
2. How can Blood Oaths help me to use the Atonement of Jesus Christ more fully as to help me learn how to eventually use it to the fullest measure it was provided for?
3. How Blood Oaths help me to feel the Holy Spirit more abundantly so as to help me learn how to eventually obtain it as my constant companion?
4. How can Blood Oaths me come to know God more perfectly so that I can become one with Him through the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit?
ANSWER TO JESUS NOT ME--Matt 5;
33 ¶ Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God’s throne:
35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil. Ether 8:14 And it came to pass that they all sware unto him, by the God of heaven, and also by the heavens, and also by the earth, and by their heads, that whoso should vary from the assistance which Akish desired should lose his head; and whoso should divulge whatsoever thing Akish made known unto them, the same should lose his life.
Masonic Mormon Blood Oaths
Its was false from beginning to End and condemned in the Book of Mormon
Ether 8: 18-19, 22, 24
18 And it came to pass that they formed a secret combination, even as they of old; which combination is most abominable and wicked above all, in the sight of God;
19 For the Lord worketh not in secret combinations, neither doth he will that man should shed blood, but in all things hath forbidden it, from the beginning of man.because of this secret combination which shall be among you; or wo be unto it
2 Ne. 9: 9
9 And our spirits must have become alike unto him, and we become devils, angels to a devil, to be dshut out from the presence of our God, and to remain with the father of lies, in misery, like unto himself; yea, to that being who beguiled our first parents, who transformeth himself nigh unto an angel of light, and stirreth up the children of men unto secret combinations of murder and all manner of secret works of darkness. (and this was their secret plan, and their combination) FREEMASONRY
YOU MUST READ THE LINK BELOW
http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks
/captmorgansfreemasonrycontents.htm
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all awrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the gpower thereof.”
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time.
Joseph Smith and the brethern joined the Luciferian BrotherHood and PriestCraft of Freemasonry

Anonymous said...

William Morgan and Joseph Smith.
Joseph Smith marries William Morgan's wife

www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/03-LucindaMorganHarris.htm

www.utlm.org/onlinebooks
/captmorgansfreemasonry1.htm

BE IT REMEMBERED, That on the fourteenth day of August, in the fifty-first year of the Independence of the United States of America, A. D. 1826, William Morgan, of the said district, hath deposited in this office the title of a book, the right whereof he claims as author, in the words following, to wit:—

"Illustrations of Masonry, by one of the fraternity who has devoted thirty years to the subject. 'God said, Let there be light, and there was light.' "

In conformity to the act of Congress of the United States, entitled "An act for the encouragement of learning, by securing the copies of maps, charts and books, to the authors and proprietors of such copies, during the time therein mentioned," and also to the act entitled "An act supplementary to the act entitled "An act for the encouragement of learning, by securing the copies of maps, charts and books, to the authors and proprietors of such copies, during the time therein mentioned,' and extending the benefits thereof to the arts of designing, engraving, and etching historical and other prints."

R. R. LANSING,
Clerk of the Northern District of N. Y.

In the absence of the author, or rather compiler of the following work, who was kidnapped and carried away from the village of Batavia, on the 11th day of September, 1826, by a number of Freemasons, it devolves upon the publisher to attempt to set forth some of the leading views that governed those who embarked in the undertaking.

Why does Sept 11th keep popping up in Mormon and Mason History Look for other occurrences !!!!!!

Doug Towers said...

Anonymous

I am curious as you claim you don't believe in secrets why you aren't using your real name?

But getting to your point in regard swearing not being done under the gospel of Jesus Christ but only under the law given to Moses. This is very cleaver on your part. You have found another key to understanding God's message in the endowment session. Keep working at it and you may come to understand more.

Anonymous said...

the subject is about the truth from different angles, not about about me or my name,
Like Joseph Smith and his church either way the truth wins out, if I be wrong i will repent for leaving the church, but if I am right you can repent.
But Since I went to the Temple in 1984 it a started to fall apart for me, The masonic Blood Oaths were done away with, not good enough for me, I feel so betrayed and thought I could work it out but I can not.
The truth shall roll forth as a stone cut from out of the mountain with out hands, crush me it may or crush The Mormon church it May,
If I rot in Hell for following my mind and Heart I pray GOD to change my Heart and Mind. and if I be right to leave the church of the Tradition of my Fathers I also Pray He touches the heart and mind of the Members with exceeding mercy.
I do not hate Mormons, being raised in the church most of my family and friends are Mormon, I love them and Myself too.
Also I would caution anyone not to leave the church
even if they do not think it is NOT true, Most will become Mad at GOD and the whole world and turn their Back on everything good and Godly,
I think most Mormons are good Christians in spite
of Joseph Smith, because they think the church and want to be true to the church. and I think the best people on earth are in the mormon church, But that does not make it true for me,
From my perspective I received the Lucifer
Initiation in the Temple,

Anonymous said...

Old wickedness or New Oaths and Covenants
Learn This
Some might say it is not the freemasons, well then who? They even identify themselves
http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks
/captmorgansfreemasonrycontents.htm
BOOK OF MORMON on the freemasons--Heleman 6:
21-22they did unite with those bands of robbers, and did enter into their covenants and their oaths, that they would protect and preserve one another in whatsoever difficult circumstances they should be placed, that they should not suffer for their murders, and their plunderings, and their bstealings.
22 And it came to pass that they did have their signs, yea, their secret signs, and their secret words; and this that they might distinguish a brother who had entered into the covenant, that whatsoever wickedness his brother should do he should not be injured by his brother, nor by those who did belong to his band, who had taken this covenant.
26-28
they were put into the heart of Gadianton by that same being who did entice our first parents to partake of the forbidden fruit—
27 Yea, that same being who did plot with Cain, that if he would murder his brother Abel it should not be known unto the world. And he did plot with Cain and his followers from that time forth.
28 And also it is that same being who put it into the hearts of the people to build a tower sufficiently high that they might get to heaven. And it was that same being who led on the people who came from that tower into this land; who spread the works of darkness and abominations over all the face of the land, until he dragged the people down to an entire destruction, and to an everlasting hell.
Ether 8:14 And it came to pass that they all sware unto him, by the God of heaven, and also by the heavens, and also by the earth, and by their heads, that whoso should vary from the assistance which Akish desired should lose his head; and whoso should divulge whatsoever thing Akish made known unto them, the same should lose his life.
Masonic Mormon Blood Oaths
Its was false from beginning to End and condemned in the Book of Mormon
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all awrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the gpower thereof.”
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time.
Joseph Smith joined the Luciferian BrotherHood and PriestCraft of Freemasonry

Anonymous said...

How? Why? Did Joseph Smith, B.Young and the other Leaders align themselves with the Brothers of Lucifer and Become Sons of The Widow Isis?

I, Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and other leaders of my own free will and accord, in presence of Almighty God and this worshipful lodge of Free and Accepted Masons, dedicated to God, and held forth to the holy order of St. John, do hereby and hereon most solemnly and sincerely promise and swear that I will always hail, ever conceal and never reveal any part or parts, art or arts, point or points of the secret arts and mysteries of ancient Freemasonry which I have received, am about to receive, or may hereafter be instructed in, to any person or persons in the known world, except it be to a true and lawful brother Mason, or within the body of a just and lawfully constituted lodge of such; and not unto him, nor unto them whom I shall hear so to be, but unto him and them only whom I shall find so to be after strict trial and due examination, or lawful information. Furthermore, do I promise and swear that I will not write, print, stamp, stain, hew, cut, carve, indent, paint, or engrave it on any thing movable or immovable, under the whole canopy of heaven, whereby or whereon the least letter, figure, character, mark, stain, shadow, or resemblance of the same may become legible or intelligible to myself or any other person in the known world, whereby the secrets of Masonry may be unlawfully obtained through my unworthiness. To all of which I do most solemnly and sincerely promise and swear, without the least equivocation, mental reservation, or self evasion of mind in me
p. 22 whatever; binding myself under no less penalty than to have my throat cut across, my tongue torn out by the roots, and my body buried in the rough sands of the sea at low water-mark, where the tide ebbs and flows twice in twenty-hours; so help me God, and keep me steadfast in the due performance of the same."
www.utlm.org/onlinebooks
/captmorgansfreemasonry2.htm
Some might be okay with that I am Not

Anonymous said...

"You have found another key to understanding God's message in the endowment session. Keep working at it and you may come to understand more."

I think I am working hard and get closer,
How am i Doing Now?
the voice of Jubela exclaim, 'O that my throat had been cut across, my tongue torn out, and my body buried in the rough sands of the sea, at low watermark, where the tide ebbs and flows twice in twenty-four hours, ere I had been accessary to the death of so good a man as our Grand Master, Hiram Abiff!' On which they distinctly heard the voice of Jubelo, 'O that my left breast had been torn open, and my heart and vitals taken from thence and thrown over my left shoulder, carried into the valley of Jehosaphat, and there to become a prey to the wild beasts of the field, and vultures of the air, ere I had conspired the death of so good a man as our Grand Master,----and whisper the word Mahhah-bone----Are you a Master Mason" "I am—try me, prove me—disprove me if you can."What is that pass-word?" Ans. "Tubal Cain."Furthermore do I promise and swear that if any part of my solemn oath or obligation be omitted at this time, that I will hold myself amenable thereto whenever informed. To all which I do most sincerely promise and swear, with a fixed and steady purpose of mind in me to keep and perform the same, binding myself under no less penalty than to have my body severed in two in the midst, and divided to the north and south, my bowels burnt to ashes in the center, and the ashes scattered before the four winds of heaven, that there might not the least track or trace of remembrance remain among men. or Masons, of so vile and perjured a wretch as I should be, were I ever to prove willfully guilty of violating any part of this my solemn oath or obligation of a Master Mason. So help me God, and keep me steadfast in the duo, performance of the same.Furthermore do I promise and swear that a Master Mason's secrets, given to me in charge as such, and I knowing them to be such, shall remain as secure and inviolable in my breast as in his own, when communicated to me, murder and treason excepted; and they left to my own election.
NOTE in the "7TH" Royal Arch Degree or the Right of EXALTATION "Murder and Treason" are removed from the Oath and Covenant!!!!! of Freemasonry

Our (Good?) Mormon Founders were Great Masons!
I Hope I am on the right path are you??????

Michael said...

Anonymous,

I'M SADDENED TO SEE THAT YOU CONTINUE TO DEVOTE YOUR TIME ENGAGED IN BATTLING THOSE THINGS THAT YOU DEEM TO BE FALSEHOOD. I PRAY THAT YOU MAY SOON FIND THINGS IN WHICH TO LIVE FOR; THAT SUPPORT YOUR BEING ABLE TO EMBRACE GOD PROGRESSIVELY THROUGH THE ATONEMENT OF JESUS CHRIST AND BY THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. THERE ARE COUNTLESS FALSEHOODS OUT THERE TO USE UP ALL YOUR TIME, BUT ONLY ONE TRUTH. YOU MAY WANT TO SEEK THAT ONE TRUTH WITH ALL YOUR HEART, MIGHT, MIND, AND STRENGTH.

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. (Matthew 7:13 - 14)

39 O, my beloved brethren, remember the awfulness in transgressing against that Holy God, and also the awfulness of yielding to the enticings of that cunning one. Remember, to be carnally–minded is death, and to be spiritually–minded is life eternal.
40 O, my beloved brethren, give ear to my words. Remember the greatness of the Holy One of Israel. Do not say that I have spoken hard things against you; for if ye do, ye will revile against the truth; for I have spoken the words of your Maker. I know that the words of truth are hard against all uncleanness; but the righteous fear them not, for they love the truth and are not shaken.
41 O then, my beloved brethren, come unto the Lord, the Holy One. Remember that his paths are righteous. Behold, the way for man is narrow, but it lieth in a straight course before him, and the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel; and he employeth no servant there; and there is none other way save it be by the gate; for he cannot be deceived, for the Lord God is his name.
42 And whoso knocketh, to him will he open; and the wise, and the learned, and they that are rich, who are puffed up because of their learning, and their wisdom, and their riches—yea, they are they whom he despiseth; and save they shall cast these things away, and consider themselves fools before God, and come down in the depths of humility, he will not open unto them.
43 But the things of the wise and the prudent shall be hid from them forever—yea, that happiness which is prepared for the saints.
44 O, my beloved brethren, remember my words. Behold, I take off my garments, and I shake them before you; I pray the God of my salvation that he view me with his all–searching eye; wherefore, ye shall know at the last day, when all men shall be judged of their works, that the God of Israel did witness that I shook your iniquities from my soul, and that I stand with brightness before him, and am rid of your blood.
45 O, my beloved brethren, turn away from your sins; shake off the chains of him that would bind you fast; come unto that God who is the rock of your salvation.
46 Prepare your souls for that glorious day when justice shall be administered unto the righteous, even the day of judgment, that ye may not shrink with awful fear; that ye may not remember your awful guilt in perfectness, and be constrained to exclaim: Holy, holy are thy judgments, O Lord God Almighty—but I know my guilt; I transgressed thy law, and my transgressions are mine; and the devil hath obtained me, that I am a prey to his awful misery. (2 Nephi 9:39 - 46)

Doug Towers said...

Anonymous

I can see your search is genuine and you really actually want answers to these things that trouble you.

Your quote of Heleman 6:21-22 is pointing out how they used such oaths, "that they should not suffer for their murders, and their plunderings, and their stealings."

In other words they made these oaths for evil, not good, purposes.

It is an interesting thing that I have noted that the devil copies the things of God and makes counterfeits.

He makes sacrifices and has priesthoods, just like God has. He makes lust instead of love in male - female relationships, etc.

In the OT God commanded oaths should be made to him only. In the NT Christ pointed out that we really should be beyond needing to make oaths, but should be honest enough to just do what we say we will. But most people aren't like that and so we make contracts written on paper these days.

Christ's apostles asked him why he spoke in parables. His answer was so that seeing they wouldn't see, and hearing they wouldn't hear.

This is the purpose of symbols and the temple. God is teaching things and we need to see beyond the symbol to its meaning. I can assure you that all these oaths have a meaning beyond what you see and hear. I know why God uses those penalties in that part of the endowment session. It is good reason. A very heavy symbol, I agree with you. But it is important to help people get the message.

Unfortunately I can't tell you as the whole point is for people to find it out through inspiration of the Spirit. He hid it for good reason.

Of course Lucifer has to come in and spoil the whole thing by making his counterfeit temple ordinances. As you say they are a bit messy. I must add that Joseph Smith only went to one meeting of the masons from memory. This may have been God inspired for him to get the basis to work from, or it could be that he had it already (as some propose).

Anonymous said...

Pointed, yet civil discourse shall display the truth, no personal attacks, History and Truth shall win out, inspite of differences or perspectives, put the truth on display, I will do my best, you do your best and we will GOD will decide, These issues will only get bigger in time as the WWW is making the world of knowledge at our finger Tips.
Reference and links in a flash at the touch of a button, all the books free and on line and published with passion, we are blessed to live in this Time!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

I must add that Joseph Smith only went to one meeting of the masons from memory.
Truth is Masonry and Mormon temple worship was not all that different back Then. Mormonism was not new to The Smith Family Nor did it ever leave the Church.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reed_C._Durham
There is absolutely no question in my mind that the Mormon ceremony which came to be known as the Endowment, introduced by Joseph Smith to Mormon Masons initially, just a little over one month after he became a Mason, had an immediate inspiration from Masonry. This is not to suggest that no other source of inspiration could have been involved, but the similarities between the two ceremonies are so apparent and overwhelming that some dependent relationship cannot be denied

www.utlm.org/onlineresources
/masonicsymbolsandtheldstemple.htm

Joseph Smith's involvement with Freemasonry. Joseph's brother, Hyrum, had been a Mason since the 1820's. Many other members of the LDS church, like Brigham Young, were Masons before they joined Mormonism.

"Tuesday, 15.—I officiated as grand chaplain at the installation of the Nauvoo Lodge of Free Masons, at the Grove near the Temple. Grand Master Jonas, of Columbus, being present, a large number of people assembled on the occasion. The day was exceedingly fine; all things were done in order, and universal satisfaction was manifested. In the evening I received the first degree in Free Masonry in the Nauvoo Lodge, assembled in my general business office." (History of the Church, by Joseph Smith, Deseret Book, 1978, Vol.4, Ch.32, p.550-1)
The next day Smith recorded:
"Wednesday, March 16.—I was with the Masonic Lodge and rose to the sublime degree." (History of the Church, Vol.4, Ch.32, p.552)

"The introduction of Freemasonry in NAUVOO had both political and religious implications....Eventually nearly 1,500 LDS men became associated with Illinois Freemasonry, including many members of the Church's governing priesthood bodies—this at a time when the total number of non-LDS Masons in Illinois lodges barely reached 150." (Encyclopedia of Mormonism, vol.2, p.527)
Since Freemasonry dates to the 1700's and Joseph Smith was a Mason before he introduced the LDS temple rituals and built the Nauvoo temple, one is forced to conclude that the similarities between the two groups are due to Smith borrowing elements from Masonry.
http://gnosis.org/ahp.htm
Latter-day Saint authors have traditionally wanted to distance Joseph Smith from the fraternity, which has resulted in such unsupportable claims as that Joseph Smith attended only three Masonic meetings in his lifetime—an assertion popularized but-----
After relocating to Palmyra, New York, in 1816, the Smith family developed close relationships with local Freemasons, and Joseph Sr. was initiated in Ontario Lodge #23 at Canandaigua. Several years later, Hyrum Smith received Masonic degrees in Palmyra’s Mount Moriah Lodge #112,

Anonymous said...

"And again, I would further suggest the impropriety of the organization of bands or companies, by covenant or oaths, by penalties or secrecies; . . . Pure friendship always becomes weakened that very moment you undertake to make it stronger by penal oaths and secrecy (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 146).
www.signaturebookslibrary.org/essays/mason.htm
However, his success did not go without notice or envy in Illinois. As Nauvoo Masons came to outnumber others, the Illinois Grand Lodge initiated investigations about whether to remove authorization of the predominately Mormon lodges. The Mormons refused to be restrained, and the Grand Lodge withdrew all authority from the Mormon lodges—an act which may explain why, when two Master Masons, Joseph and Hyrum Smith, were killed in Carthage, Illinois, Joseph’s Masonic cry of distress went unanswered by the Masons crowded outside the jail.
There is not space in this short overview to enumerate specific areas of Mormonism that were undoubtedly influenced by Masonry. Indeed, the list of Mormon concepts not influenced by Freemasonry may be shorter. Parallels between the two institutions are many, including degrees of glory, sacred treasures hidden in the earth, the exaltation of mankind in the presence of deity, interest in ancient Egypt and Israel, emphasis on the creative role of a supreme being, symbolic clothing, and secret means of recognition. Both traditions have made extensive use, architecturally and otherwise, of motifs such as the beehive, square and compasses, handclasps, sun, moon, and stars. Even more mundane features of Mormonism, such as administrative structure and ritual secrecy, bear the unmistakable imprint of the Fraternity. Readers may want to consult my forthcoming (2007) work, Method Infinite: Freemasonry and the Mormon Restoration, and works listed below.—Nicholas S. Literski
www.utlm.org/onlineresources
/mormonkingdomvol1ch13masonicinfluence.htm

Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon religion, was a Freemason, as were the first five presidents of the Church: Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, and Lorenzo Snow. When the Mormons first settled Utah, the entire church hierarchy was composed of Freemasons. Many Mormon symbols and rituals bear a striking similarity to Masonic ceremonies.

Anonymous said...

[Even after the Mormons came to Utah,
Brigham Young continued to wear his Masonic pin
displaying the compass and square.]
www.utlm.org/images/masonictemplearticle
/mysteriesofgodliness_p131c.jpg

www.freemasonrywatch.org/moroni.html
the subsequent exodus to Utah by Brigham Young, the rejection of Mormonism by Utah Freemasonry, and finally the coming of universal Freemasonry to Utah.
the general public semantically considered Freemasonry to be the epitome of a secret society and consequently related Mormonism and Freemasonry at the same well spring.
On April 6, 1840, the present Grand Lodge of Illinois was formed by the Mormon Patriarch, Judge and General James Adams.

An interesting side note is that the Mormon Church was founded on April 6, 1830, The Nauvoo Temple was dedicated on April 6 and the Mormon Church teaches that the birth of Christ actually was April 6 (though they celebrate it on December 25). The early years of the Grand Lodge were fraught with great difficulty and not all lodges within the state joined it until the middle of the 1840s. Under the Grand Mastership of a complex and colorful individual, named Abraham Jonas and a Deputy Grand Master equally remarkable man named James Adams, the new Grand Lodge engaged in some unusual transactions with the Mormons of Nauvoo.

Anonymous said...

Billy Graham and Norman Vincent Peale
believe that Jesus Christ lied
Not only did these two men believe this, but they are also both 33rd Degree Freemasons who were also both present at Jim Shaw's 33rd Degree Masonic initiation.
Peale is no ordinary Freemason. He was when alive connected to many other powerful 33rd Degree Freemasons in the field of religion, or should I say religious deception. There are powerful ties between him and other high ranking Freemasons such as Billy Graham, Robert Schuller and former Mormon president Spencer Kimball.
One of these is Norman Vincent Peale, publisher of Guidepost magazine and writer of many books including the best selling Power of Positive Thinking. Our conclusion after much research is that Norman Vincent Peale is a universalist, that is, he believes that everyone is going to heaven if they believe in a god, and have some redeeming value, which is just about everyone. This is evidenced by several situations documented in Peale's life.
On March 28, 1980, Dr. Peale was the featured speaker at an 85th birthday dinner honoring Mormon prophet speaker Spencer W. Kimball. The official Mormon newspaper reported that Brigham Young University bestowed an honorary degree on Dr. Peale (Church News, February 9, 1980, p. 11).
www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~emcd
/AlphaRoots_VincentPeale.htm

In 1984, President Spencer W. Kimball removed the prohibition against Latter-day Saints becoming Freemasons. Later that year, the Grand Lodge of Utah removed its own ban on Mormon membership so that, in the twenty ensuing years, many Latter-day Saint men began to reclaim this part of their heritage. Respected men in the LDS Church have since become leaders in the Masonic fraternity throughout the world.
"Re-united and it feels sooo Good"
www.signaturebookslibrary.org/essays/mason.htm

Michael said...

Anonymous,

All temporal resources and histories aside, WHAT HAS GOD REVEALED TO YOU ABOUT YOUR CONCERNS?

ARE YOU LEARNING TO RELY UPON HIM MORE FULLY AS YOU SEEK ANSWERS TO YOUR CONCERNS?

IF NOT, MAYBE YOU ARE LOOKING TO MAN'S HISTORY FOR WHAT YOU OUGHT TO BE OBTAINING FROM GOD.

MAYBE THIS WHOLE DIFICULTY HAS BEEN A BLESSING IN DISGUISE TO GET YOU TO REALLY HAVE TO SEEK AFTER GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, MIGHT, MIND, AND STRENGTH.

ALL HE WANTS IS ALL OF YOU, AND ALL YOU NEED IS ALL OF HIM.

LET HIM TEACH YOU HOW TO RECEIVE HIM UNTO RECONCILIATION AND ETERNAL INHERITANCE.

Love,
Your Brother in Christ
Michael

Anonymous said...

"WHAT HAS GOD REVEALED TO YOU ABOUT YOUR CONCERNS? "

1, Mass hypnosis Works, and that those who are under hypnosis rely on feelings, out of delusions based on Fear, Trauma, Emotions, Altered States, Traditions, Death Threats, Death Oaths, Oaths of Secrets, Oath and Covenants, Authority Figures, False Perceptions. Cult Leaders<

2, Hypnosis can have one deny Science, History, Physics, Biology, Anthropology, Science,

3, Freemasonry has been on a mission to take control of all religions, and has a hand in every Cult.

4, The Jesuits sit at the Head of Freemasonry. And is control, and controls Both sides of opposition.

5, Brigham Young, Heber C. Kimball, John C. Bennett, Hyrum Smith and Joseph Smith, Sr. Were Freemason Before Joseph Smith jr.

6, Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon religion, was a Freemason, as were the first five presidents of the Church: Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, and Lorenzo Snow. When the Mormons first settled Utah, the entire church hierarchy was composed of Freemasons.

7, "Mormon Lodges." Nauvoo comprised a total membership of 1550 Masons. A conservative estimate of the membership of the other four lodges suggests that the total of the five lodges may have exceed 2,000 Masons.(1842)

8, The Mormons were expelled from masonry and mormons created there clandestine form of freemasonry.

9, Masons Killed Joseph Smith for sharing masonry with Mormons, including the Sign, Grips, Tokens, Passwords,OATHS AND COVENANTS of Masonry
including the Oaths of Secrecy and Death Penalties.

www.lds-mormon.com/masonry.shtml

Anonymous said...

"All temporal resources and histories aside"

If Mormonism is a Lie?

Does GOD still exist?

Does Truth still exist?

Does the TRUTH force me to leave a church that is a Lie?

Anonymous said...

"I'M SADDENED TO SEE THAT YOU CONTINUE TO DEVOTE YOUR TIME ENGAGED IN BATTLING THOSE THINGS THAT YOU DEEM TO BE FALSEHOOD."

Alma 5: 25
25 except ye make our Creator a liar from the beginning, or suppose that he is a liar from the beginning, ye cannot suppose that such can have place in the kingdom of heaven; but they shall be cast out for they are the children of the kingdom of the devil.

Ether 8: 25 (Talking About the Freemasons)
25 For it cometh to pass that whoso buildeth it up seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people, for it is built up by the devil, who is the father of all lies; even that same liar who beguiled our first parents, yea, even that same liar who hath caused man to commit murder from the beginning; who hath hardened the hearts of men that they have murdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from the beginning.
John 8: 44 (CAIN) (LUCIFER) (MASONS)
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
D&C 93: 25 (BLOOD OATHS)(MASONS)
25 And whatsoever is more or less than this is the spirit of that wicked one who was a liar from the beginning.

YES YES I Battle False HOOD, PREIST CRAFT,
Freemasonry, Witch Craft, and all of its Sons and Daughters.
At the Least if you are free of Those things God will
Talk to your spirit.
You do not need to sing" PRAISE TO THE MAN"
You can PRAISE THE LORD.
You do not need to Worship your Religion.
You do not need to Worship your Books.
You do not need to Worship your Temples.
HYMMMMMMM
A Missionary for the truth, What a Sin,
It is called preaching and telling the truth.
You had better check your front door someone is knocking!!!!!!!

Luke 13: 25
25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
Rev. 3: 20
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Doug Towers said...

Anonymous

The claim of the masons is that its rituals came from Solomon's temple. Thus it isn't any surprise that many of the ordinances and symbols are the same.

You have presented that the church opposes the sciences of our day. All I can say to that is, "good on it."

If you want to find the true secret combination of our day it is the religion known as "modern science." It has been promoted by atheists in an attempt to oppose the truth.

It has presented us with such unproven theories as atoms, distances in space, ice age, stone age, dinosaur age, billions of years ago, dating methods and other such fantasies. And this religion is compulsory in our schools.

You believe in this because the priests of that religion tell you it is so. And other priests support it so it must be right. You have seen it on television, so it has to be accurate. You believe in a thinking gray blob that because of its shape can think and create feelings.

Great faith you place in these highly paid clowns. It is the largest religion in the world. If you want to go on about how intelligence-washed we are it would be best you put your thought in this area. I can talk endlessly of the lies that have been presented by these frauds in the name of science.

It isn't the masons you need to worry about. It is the atheists.

Anonymous said...

While there are many currents to this period, one of the fascinating and little-explored backwater eddys of particular interest to Atheists and libertarians is the role of Masonic lodges and "secret societies" during this time. Surprisingly little objective historical work exists on this area. The drama of social revolution and intellectual apostacy was taking place not only in the streets of Paris, or the open fields of Lexington and Concord, but in countless lodges and sect gatherings and reading societies as well. These conclaves, with their metaphorical-hermetic secrets, symbolism and lore, were the crucibles of "impiety and anarchy" so bemoaned by church dogmatists of the time like the Jesuit Abbe Barruel. Of all of the clubs, societies, libraries, salons and lodges of this stormy time, perhaps none has been so villified, attacked and misunderstood as that group known as the Order of the Illuminati.

www.atheists.org/The_Enlightenment,_Freemasonry,_and_The_Illuminati

Anonymous said...

Powers to Reckon with with
1, Secular Zionist Jews
2, Jesuits
3, Freemasons
4, The Kings of the East
5, The Catholic Church
6 The Orthodox Church

The Enlightenment mirrored the Christian religion. Reason became its revelation, nature its god. If the Enlightenment did not abolish the myth of god, it reduced god to a sort of absentee deity, a caretaker to the universe who was nevertheless subject to the laws of nature. Deism arose from the same fertile soil of the Enlightenment as had Atheism, and no doubt many deists were actually Atheists. The deistic god was symbolized in the masonic lodges as the "Great Architect of the Universe", certainly not the god of the Christian superstition.
As the Encyclopedia became the bible of the Enlightenment, Freemasonry became its ritual. The history of the craft is centuries old, "obscured", as one writer puts it, "by the blending of provable history and legend." 1 It was during the Middle Ages that guilds of builder-masons existed. Traveling from town to town, they worked on the massive cathedrals, castles and bridges; they were neither merchants nor fixed to the soil, but instead a mobile fraternity of skilled workers. As early as the 14th century, stonemasons had organized into companies or lodges. The craft was both respected and demanding, for it was the mason who was both skilled contractor and, in many cases, architect of a particular building project. 2

Anonymous said...

"It is not a form of religious persecution to say and to show that another religion is false. for an informed person to expose publicly a certain religion on being false, thus allowing persons to see the difference between false religion and true religion.

http://thewebfairy.com/hardtruth/religionindex.htm

Scottish masons had invented passwords and special handshakes by the early 17th century, a ritual which soon spread throughout the lodges.

www.atheists.org/The_Enlightenment,_Freemasonry,_and_The_Illuminati
A 1425 manuscript traces the origins of masonry back to Euclid, through the construction of the Tower of Babel and Solomon's Temple.
the lodges, with their secrecy and symbolism, harbored certain hermetic truths handed down from ancient civilizations. Hard science (what little there was) still overlapped with occultism 3 and Masonry was transformed into a potpourri of cabalism, mythology, ritual and intellectual heterodoxy.


In 1717, a United Grand Lodge was formed in London, using Dr. John Anderson's Constitution to standardize the rituals and practices of Freemasonry. It was from this constitution that the masonic tales of Hiram Abiff, King Solomon's Master Builder, along with the pyramid style organizational model would date. Some Masons, however, calling themselves "Ancients" refused to acknowledge the regency of the Grand Lodge.
This vacuum of universal, Socialist-Communist, Jesuit Atheism is presently being imposed on all nations via academia, the press, apostate Protestantism and a host of other seductive avenues. The prelude of universal atheism imposed for the last 70 years will be ended with the grand finale of universal belief in Satan— “the god of this world” —with the worship of the slain and risen Pope turned Antichrist/Man-Beast physically possessed by Satan.
www.vaticanassassins.org/

Anonymous said...

THAT OL' TIME RELIGION

The revival of this "ol' time religion" is, of course, being touted as a "religion for a New Age." But it has an old familiar ring-- or should we say "smell"-- to it. The smell of sulfur!

This "new" religion is in fact as old as the Garden of Eden, where Satan brought about the fall of man. It flowered at Babylon, bloomed in Egypt with the sun god Osiris and the moon goddess Isis, and is alive today in the Hindu religion, other Eastern religions, and Western religions such as Unity, Christian Science, Unitarianism, New Thought, Spiritualism, and Mormonism. At also lives on in the Lodges, Dogma and Rites of Freemasonry.

I'm sure very few new Masons have realized that they were being initiated into an organization which--in spite of its recent public relations pronouncements to the contrary--considers itself the present day embodiment of these Mystery Religions. But that this is the case is attested to by numerous New Agers and Masonic scholars, including Alice A. Bailey's husband, Foster, a 33rd Degree Mason:

"Masonry is the descendent of, or is founded upon, a divinely imparted religion which long antedates the prime date of creation as given in our Bible. [It] is all that remains to us of the first world religion which flourished in an antiquity so old that it is impossible to affix a date. It was the first unified world religion... To this, such symbols as the pyramids, both in Egypt and South America, bear witness... the ancient Mysteries were temporary custodians of the ancient truth and closely allied to the Masonic work of today...The relation of the Mysteries to Masonry has oft been recognized, and the golden thread of living continuity can be traced through them to modern Masonry. The Mysteries... are all parts of that ancient thread which has its origin in that primeval religion which terminates today in Masonry." [Foster Bailey, 33° , pp. 30-32 , The Spirit of Masonry; Lucis Press Ltd; Tunbridge Wells, Kent, England; 1957].

"Masonry is regarded as the direct descendant, or as a survival of the mysteries... of Isis and Osiris in Egypt..." [Robert Freke Gould, Past Senior Grand Deacon of England, Vol. 1, p. 13, History of Freemasonry; New York, 1884].
The signs, symbols and inscriptions date from...the Sumerian civilizations...Chaldea [Babylon], Assyria, Greece, Rome and even in Mexico and Yucatan...some rites of the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry of our Mother Jurisdiction have been in existence from time immemorial. For we teach the same grand truths, the same sublime philosophies... as those adepts of the ancient mysteries taught in their esoteric rites." [Henry C. Clausen, 33°, Sovereign Grand Commander, The Supreme Council 33°, A&ARFM, Mother Jurisdiction of the World, pp. 5-7, Messages for a Mission, 1971].

www.saintsalive.com/resourcelibrary/freemasonry
/freemasonry-and-the-new-age-religion

OKAY EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW about
FREEMASONRY

www.saintsalive.com/resourcelibrary/freemasonry

"The claim of the masons is that its rituals came from Solomon's temple. Thus it isn't any surprise that many of the ordinances and symbols are the same."

Completely False you a falling For Masonic Fables

Doug Towers said...

Anonymous

You have obviously read a lot about the Masons. More than I have. But logic tells me that when someone starts to speak about something where we have no written history the works you are reading are just unsubstanciated theories: Wild guesses by these people.

What your reading does reveal (if somewhere based on something more than someone's conjecture) is that these rites are ancient. A fact that adds support to the church's claim that they were given by God to Adam. Talk of anything pre-dating Adam is just fantasy. No written evidence of anything existing before him (or anywhere near his time) exists. I can make claims that Leprechans and Fairies existed many thousands of years ago and quote folk lore to support my claim. I could go out and hire "scientists" to find evidence of it being true. But it isn't, none the less. We must stick to known facts in an examination.

So what are the known facts?

You feel that the church seems to have got things wrong. I'm not going to say that all is well in Zion. Of course there is errors wherever man is doing things. But is it accurate to say the church doesn't represent truth and God?

I was raised a Protestant. I was brought up to believe in the horror of a God they have. The one that just made us for his pleasure and will burn almost all of us because almost all of us never even heard of Jesus Christ. And since he is the inventor of all things then why does it matter if we do this or that? But he made these rules and if we don't follow them he'll send us off to burn. Well you may believe that twaddle, but I found the truth.

How do I know there is a God? I have walked and talked with him for hundreds of hours. Yes, I have seen the Father and the Son. I have also seen the Holy Ghost.

So is God real? You bet he is.

The Holy Ghost taught me of international politics. He would tell me what was going to happen in countries, months before it did. Political analysts got some things right some times. He got it all right every time.

I have walked into an unknown shopping centre, thought about the possibility of finding an unusual thing to buy and he has immediately lead me straight to it.

I could go on and on endlessly with this stuff. God has stopped the rain MANY times when I have asked him to. He has made cars do things they ought not many times. And so the list goes on.

God has supported the truths taught by Joseph Smith as revelations. We can make all sorts of claims about the dead who aren't here to defend themselves. This means nothing. Some spoke against Joseph Smith and some spoke for him. This is to be expected whenever someone says things others don't want to hear.

I know that the rituals that are done in the temple mean things that are hidden. I know some of these things by revelation (particularly the blood bits - which confused me when I saw them also). I can only assure you that in spite of your concerns about Masons, that the church's rites are accurate. These are things of God.

Anonymous said...

traces the origins of masonry back to Euclid, through the construction of the Tower of Babel and Solomon's Temple.

Just so you Know, Solomon defieled the Temple with Pagan Idols inside the Temple, So trace your Temple roots back to The Tower of Babel and to the Pagan practices of Solomons Temple,

Also notice that The Master Mahan/Masons were the Pagan builders of the Temple and Tower of Babel Now you Have Two Temples that you can Take referrance of.

Michael said...

Doug,

Thank you so much for your powerful testimony of the Godhead. I too have had many sacred experiences with them. If only everyone understood how anxious They are to share our whole lives with us, even unto Eternal Life, then maybe we would all be bonded by the inseperable bounds of Christ's pure love. I know that much of Christ's blood was shed because of the hard heartedness of mankind. Sadly, that includes much of my pitiful life. However, I do know that God's ultimate purpose is to help His children enter into full fellowship, being conformed into His image through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. And I know it breaks Their hearts, as it does yours and mine, when others of God's children can't seem to feel that invitation or find their way in this dark world. Thank you again for courageously sharing that which you hold sacred in love to those who could so easily trample upon it in ignorence. God has had so much patience and mercy with me. May we hold out as faithful servants with long suffering and the pure love of Christ.

Michael

Anonymous said...

How do I know there is a God? I have walked and talked with him for hundreds of hours. Yes, I have seen the Father and the Son. I have also seen the Holy Ghost.

If that so be the Case you should no longer waste your time on learning. You are as an Apostle and are a Special witness of Christ. You words are as scripture though not officially endorsed by the Church.

You have received the Second Comforter.

By the Way is the Holy Ghost Adam with out his Body?

Anonymous said...

When King asked him about the subject, Hinckley explained that Mormon pioneers brought plural marriage with them when they settled the Salt Lake Valley in 1847, but only ``on a restricted scale . . . it was practiced by between 2 and 5 percent of the people and it was carefully safeguarded.''

`It's behind us,'' said Hinckley, a man believed to be a ``prophet, seer and revelator'' by the church's 10 million members. ``I condemn it as a practice. It is not doctrinal. It is not legal.''

Did Hinckley LIE?
"I condemn it as a practice. It is not doctrinal."
D&C132? 2-5%??????
http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4
/document.php?CISOROOT=
/EoM&CISOPTR=4391&CISOSHOW=4055&REC=1|

Michael said...

Anonymous,

I am saddened to see that you have no good news to live by and have no way of encouraging and uplifting others unto God through Jesus Christ and His gospel. I was really hoping to have something good to build upon with you unto union in Christ although there are obvious differences in our personal preferences.

Please forgive the blunt nature of this question, but I think it is one that you should seriously consider.

ARE YOU EVER GOING TO PROMOTE ANY POSITIVE METHODS OF IMPLEMENTING THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST UNTO THE FULFILLING OF GOD’S PURPOSES OR ARE YOU SO ATE UP WITH DARKNESS AND VENOM THAT YOU WILL CONTINUE UNCEASINGLY TO PREY UPON HUMBLE FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST AND CONTINUE TO SEEK TO DISCOURAGE THEM FROM EXERCISING FAITH IN THE REVELATIONS HE HAS GIVEN THEM BECAUSE OF HIS MERCY AND GRACE?

I was raised in the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints, but as a teenager fell away completely from any contact with it or its members. Independent of anything mankind has ever presented me, God manifested Himself unto me, forgave me of my sins, and invited me to learn to receive of His fullness by embracing the things that my parents and Church leaders taught me as a youth. He invited me to do this so that through those things I could better learn how to wholly rely upon the Atonement of Jesus Christ and become perfected through His Holy Spirit. The same God, Jesus, and Holy Ghost who are helping me to become one with them while endorsing the LDS Church are the same Godhead that are helping me learn how to love you and desire your obtainment of their fullness despite your constant predatory antagonism. I do not worship the Book of Mormon or the Bible, Joseph Smith, temple rites, priesthoods, or the Church, but use those things to support my worship of God and the implementation of the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

Is it better for me to follow the Almighty God of Unconditional Love and Eternal Life or to yield to your endless supply of SECULAR REFERENCES and OPINIONS? You back up none of your views with the power of God, personal revelation, or present it through His love.

To speak in behalf of the other readers who have come to utilize the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ because of exercising faith in DIRECT REVELATION FROM GOD, “we ought to obey God rather than man” (Acts 5:29) and his SECULAR REFERENCES!!!

Only one person to ever walk this earth was perfect in everything He thought and said, that was Jesus Christ the Son of God. NO PROPHET AT ANY TIME WAS PERFECT, WE ALL HAVE TO GROW, LEARN, AND GAIN GREATER UNDERSTANDING NO MATTER WHAT GOD HAS EVER REVEALED TO US!!!

Because of the Love of God which is in me and my desire that you receive of His fullness I warn you in His Holy Name that as you continue to condemn the Church of Jesus Christ and His anointed servants, that “if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not the things of God, that ye may be found spotless at the judgment-seat of Christ” (BOM title page)!

Your brother in Christ
Michael