Hello All!
I appreciate the vigorous debate and discussion. And I don't want to interfer with any of that. And I try not to censor the discussion by cutting things out.
But, discussions of Masonry should be on the posts regarding Masonry;
http://mormonmysticism.blogspot.com/2008/03/did-temple-ordinances-come-from-masons.html
http://mormonmysticism.blogspot.com/2008/02/mustirra-master-mason-clang.html
http://mormonmysticism.blogspot.com/2007/10/templar-papers-to-be-released.html
http://mormonmysticism.blogspot.com/2007/08/mormon-masonic-clang.html
http://mormonmysticism.blogspot.com/2007/08/masons-friends-of-foes.html
And of course: http://mormonmysticism.blogspot.com/2007/09/why-i-apostatized.html
And I will be cutting out name calling, or disrespectful comments of LDS church leaders, like referring to the Prophet Joseph as "old Joe." You can disagree all you want, but on this blog, we will not be disparaging the prophets, whether or not you agree they are prophets.
Thank you, and let the debate resume 8-)
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1 – 200 of 201 Newer› Newest»Perhaps during your house Keeping you could sweep freemasonry under the door mat as is the Mormon Norm with all of the Parts of Mormon History we do not wish to see,
Bro Reed Said--
"There is absolutely no question in my mind that the Mormon ceremony which came to be known as the Endowment, introduced by Joseph Smith to Mormon Masons initially, just a little over one month after he became a Mason, had an immediate inspiration from Masonry. This is not to suggest that no other source of inspiration could have been involved, but the similarities between the two ceremonies are so apparent and overwhelming that some dependent relationship cannot be denied...."
Also The Qalbala Key and Gate to the Mysteries comes in, of and thru Josephs Smiths School of freemasonry, to understand any "Mysterios" aspect of Mormons go to the Source Freemasonry.
Phrase Like "Oath& Covenant'"
"Initation" "Endowent"
"Concecration" "Exaltation" Etc............. All have their roots in FreeMasonry. So Caution to you if you sweep Masonry away you Might find your Self in some Little Baptist Church!!!!!!!!!
Anonymous
If we are to accept (for arguments sake) that the church is true, then the similarities are EASILY explained. The Masons got them from the sources they claim: They came from genuine rites that were performed in the temple. These rites came from God. So obviously the rites SHOULD have many similarities. The only place they should be different is where people have changed them over the millenia or God has given added information. And the latter is the case.
Today I Had a carne-asada taco, I thought "if I took the carne-asada out, what would I Have?
Well it would be like Taking Freemasonry out of Mormonism you would be Left with Taco shells with no Meat. And If it were not such an Important Part of almost everything Mormon, and if Josesh Smith was Not a Freemason nothing would need to be said.
Doug Towers Said
"The Masons got them from the sources they claim: They came from genuine rites that were performed in the temple."
Please Get This "Rite" Right.
The Masons like to pretend that they were the Builders of Solomons Temple. The Builders were Pagans not of Isreal. Never do they Claim to be anything other than the Pagan Builders, Yet they also Brag that they were the BUILDERS OF THE TOWER OF BABEL here is your chance to see and Hear.
Tubal Cain, Passgrip of a 'Master' Mason: Duncan's Masonic Ritual and Monitor
"now wishes to receive further light in Masonry, by being raised to the sublime Degree of a Master Mason." -"In search of further light in Masonry."
You will cause him to kneel on his naked knees, both hands resting on the Holy Bible, square, and compasses.Let him receive further light.(Pronounced by the conductor--Tubal Cain.) 1By the pass and token of the pass of a Master Mason.
Cain and Tubal Cain
Repent of the Cain and Tubal Cain RITE
www.freemasonrywatch.org/duncans.tubal
.cain.pasword.of.a.master.mason.036.html
www.sacred-texts.com/mas/dun/dun04.htm
You have Been Had and you Now know it.
If you followed the Links and read what it Said
You have Nothing logical to say except to Repent
Anonymous
I already knew that some of the craftsmen building the temple were Gentiles. The Bible clearly declares this. But this doesn't mean that temple rites weren't in existence among the true priesthood holders or that the Gentiles weren't taught them by some Israelite. We can only make wild guesses either way. Neither you nor I nor anyone living knows for sure. And people speculating in the past were no wiser.
You claim that if Masonry were removed from the church the meat would be taken out of it. I think you have been reading too much about this stuff. Are you serious????
The church has a complex set of doctrine that permeates absolutely everything in existence.
If I go out and do my washing I could come up seemingly endless doctrines relative to that act alone. And none of them would have anything to do with symbols done in the temple themselves.
The BUILDERS OF THE TOWER and the priestcraft of the master Mason,
"But this doesn't mean that temple rites weren't in existence among the true priesthood holders or that the Gentiles weren't taught them by some Israelite."
The old priest hood of Israel and the Temple has Nothing to do With Cain, Tubal Cain or freemasonry
In FreeMasonry to Make the Perfect Oath and Covenant to Lucifer Thru Cain and Tubal Cain.
Passes, Signs, Grips, Tokens, and all Similitude Gestures with the Blood Oaths and Penalties are for Mafia Secret Combination Type Organizations.
Hel. 6: 22
22 And it came to pass that they did have their signs, yea, their secret signs, and their secret words; and this that they might distinguish a brother who had entered into the covenant, that whatsoever wickedness his brother should do he should not be injured by his brother, nor by those who did belong to his band, who had taken this covenant.
Alma 37 22
22 For behold, the Lord saw that his people began to work in darkness, yea, work secret murders and abominations; therefore the Lord said, if they did not repent they should be destroyed from off the face of the earth.
their secret abominations have been brought out of darkness and made known unto us.
27 And now, my son, I command you that ye retain all their oaths, and their covenants, and their agreements in their secret abominations; yea, and all their signs and their wonders ye shall keep from this people, that they know them not, lest peradventure they should fall into darkness also and be destroyed.
Hel 6 26
26 Now behold, those secret oaths and covenants did not come forth unto Gadianton from the records which were delivered unto Helaman; but behold, they were put into the heart of Gadianton by that same being who did entice our first parents to partake of the forbidden fruit ----LUCIFER CAIN
19 For the Lord worketh not in secret combinations, neither doth he will that man should shed blood, but in all things hath forbidden it, from the beginning of man.
1 And Cain said: Truly I am Mahan, the master of this great secret, that I may murder and get gain. Wherefore Cain was called Master Mahan, and he gloried in his wickedness.
51 For, from the days of Cain, there was a secret combination, and their works were in the dark, and they knew every man his brother.
D&C 42: 64, 92
64 And even now, let him that goeth to the east teach them that shall be converted to flee to the west, and this in consequence of that which is coming on the earth, and of secret combinations.
John 18: 20
20 Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing.
For Jews had Killed the Prophets, and turned away from God, worshiped Molock and other Idols That Solomon had Placed in the Temple The Jews Had turned to Mysticism and Gnosticism and The Witchcraft of the Builder of the Tower of Babel, When the Jews being wicked were in The Land of Babel the learned the religion of Babel.
The Jewish religion had Fallen and The TRUTH be came a Mystery In Fact will all their Pride of Much learning and "keeping" all of their oaths and covenants They could NOT SEE TRUTH the TRUTH was a Mystery to them.
THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO ST JOHN
CHAPTER 8
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
Rom. 16: 25
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
John 18: 20
20 Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing. (Twice)
Anonymous
You have presented nothing but wild speculation. Talk of Tubal Cain and Lucifer and Elvis Presley even don't make a cracker of difference to what we are talking about.
You have claimed that the church teaches a blood oath for evil purposes. Yet there are no murders performed and kept secret as these Scriptures you quote are relating to. There is no oath made in order that church members can make a "gain." You are just saying that because Lucifer use the same processes that God uses that God's processes must be evil.
The Aztecs used sacrifices to murder people so God must be a murderer for giving Israel commands to have sacrifices; is the logic of your argument.
You haven't presented one bit of substance to your repetitive claims. Prove that Masons have used their oaths to murder to get gain, at least. You are just full of pointing the finger at others in attempts to accomplish what? To make me have all these distortions about people who haven't done any wrong? To feel that Joseph Smith must be an evil man because he went to some Masonry meetings?
Come on, get off this stuff and enjoy life before things get serious. There are things to occur that will soon be upon us that are horrifying. The signs of the times will soon start in earnest. Enjoy the present freedom and situation you have. You'll have plenty of real things to worry about soon. There's no Masons in your closet waiting to murder you and take your things. And there's none in mine.
To feel that Joseph Smith must be an evil man because he went to some Masonry meetings?
A walk thru the Park is a Bit Different than receiving the Lucifer Initiation!
You do not go to the Masonic Temple and just sit in the back seat. Perhaps you could explain why Joseph Smith as the Holy Apostle, Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, The One who held all the Keys of all dispensations to usher in the Great winding down seen.
Would Swear The OATH & COVENANT of Freemasonry, Swear in a Manner and Fashion with blood oaths and Penalties, Swear in a "Holy" way to an Organization of "this world" Bow himself down before the Altar of Masonry and plead "as one being in darkness I seek the "Light" of Masonry" Mind you being half Naked, Receive the pass Word Tubal Cain
" Swear in the Name of the Lord By your Life, Head and Neck" to Be faithful to the commands of the Grand Lodge and higher Masons, (Jesuits)
Once you understand Masonry is a Lucifer Secret Combination, the TRUTH will Jump out at You..
Why all of this Wild and Crazy talk of Masonry, Lucifer and Gnosis?
There is on Earth in the Israel/Christian two basic camps
The Faithful
and
The Gnostics
I all goes Back to the Fall and those who Believe in
the Instructions of Lucifer, The Father of all Lies,
who was a Liar from the Beginning, Those who Believe that Partaking of the Fruit of the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, was Gods Will.
There is also the Camp of those who Believe GOD is Faithful, and those who Believe in being Faithful.
Those followers of GODs WORD who reject Lucifers words as Lies.
Out of Love and Appreciation the faithful keep the commands of God
Gal 2:21
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Paul Adressess the Gnostic Lovers of SOPHIA
Philosophers (the Greek god of "Wisdom")
1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an aangel from heaven, preach any bother cgospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Do you believe in Lucifers Lies that other "gospel"
of the Gnosis Wisdom of That Tree
or do you Believe in the Tree of Life
Anonymous
I can no more answer why Joseph Smith did something than you can. He is presently unavailable for comment. I am curious about some thoughts expressed by many people. But we just have to wait.
Attempts to discredit someone deceased are a bit futile. It demonstrates lack of substance for an argument.
So you believe that because Joseph Smith went to Masonic meetings he must have a different gospel. How do you come up with these conclusions???? You must have been reading too many of those bash books against the church where they say nothing, but just sensationalise.
You propose that God didn't want Adam and Eve to learn the difference between good and evil. Yet God commanded them to be fruitful and multiply. Now how were they going to fulfil that commandment without doing good? If they fulfilled that the commandment they would have to have done good.
Lets those who are Dead Sleep and Let those who are a Sleep remain Dead!!!
WAKE UP
Your best defense of Joseph Smith is that he is Dead?
"How do you come up with these conclusions????"
www.masonicworld.com/education/files/tubal-cain.htm
www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=244
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tubal-cain
www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/symbology
/1o5.htm
www.ephesians5-11.org/handshakes.htm
www.freemasonrywatch.org/tubalcain.html
As a Gnostic you confuse which god you Follow,
"Now how were they going to fulfil that commandment without doing good?"
All Gnostic believe that the Best First Good act was To Follow Lucifers Instructions as Opposed to Following GOD
You are so tied into
Gnostic Tower Building Masonry
That you can not see that you Think Lucifer"s Rite is Right
V/S
Faithful Christians
Lets Get this Straight
www.mormonwiki.com/Fall
www.kevinbywater.com/weblog/?page_id=35
Christians Believe Lucifer was a Liar, Christians are not Gnostics.
In the Gnostic Camp are the following Groups
These Groups all to a Lesser to a Greater Degree believe that The following of Lucifers Instructions were Good and Grand for Man
The Fallen Groups: OPHITES, Merkava, Gnostics, Mystics, Wiccans. Luciferians, Masons, Mormons, and Satanist.
Lucifer was the Bringer of Light
www.jefflindsay.com/adam.shtml
http://comparing-views.com/#fall
Do you at least understand which camp you are IN?
Do you Know which camps Joseph Smith was In?
John Quincy Adams, sixth President of the United States, was a determined opponent of the secret society and fraternity of Freemasonry, the Masonic Lodge. The question of Freemasonry and the controversy over its character has long been debated. But for John Quincy Adams, writer, poet, faithful husband, patriot, former Ambassador and Secretary of State, and President, there was no question. The teachings and practices of the Lodge, Adams asserted, are detrimental, noxious, and unfortunate. John Quincy Adams was persuaded that the Masonic Lodges were a bane to society, evil, and Luciferian.
So you believe that because Joseph Smith went to Masonic meetings he must have a different gospel.
Yes Yes Yes if you followed the Links in the above Post
Yes Joseph Smith had "another" Gospel.
www.mormonwiki.com/Fall (Mormon Wiki)
Gnostic view
the serpent of Genesis was viewed not as the villiain of the book, but as the hero. It was he, after all, who brought divine wisdom to man. The god in Genesis had told Adam not to eat the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge, for if he did he “would surely die.” But Adam and Eve did eat the fruit, and they didn’t die. In other words, God was wrong and the serpent was right. The serpent told the truth, and God had lied. Certain Gnostics and Christians thought that this was surely the intended subtext of Genesis. Evidence that they may have been correct can be seen in what amounts to an Aramaic pun. In this now-dead language, used at the time of Christ, the words for “serpent” and “to instruct” are nearly identical. The serpent had instructed Eve to eat of the Tree of Life, and in following his advice, she gained wisdom. Viewed in this light, how could the serpent not be seen as the hero of Genesis?
Well i guess you can be a Gnostic Christian Mormon!!
Okay you all I shall take a little break,
Enjoy the Steak!!!!
I would like to see some intelligent Response about
Cain, Tu-Bal Cain and all of The Good things of Cains Masonry of the Master Mason?
Anonymous
Quoting politicians at me now. Am I supposed to be impressed?
Look, let me make it simple for you. I'm far from impressed by police, lawyers, judges, politicians, psycs, doctors, professors, teachers, "scientists" (those working in areas that don't produce anything provable and useful), family services, and any other government worker with too much power.
You've asked me to say something logical about your quotes of words like Master Mahan and Tu-Bal Cain etc. But as these are just names you and these others are throwing out there is nothing logical for me to answer.
The Mafia aren't making oaths to Tu-Bal Cain, nor calling their leaders Master Mason, but real people are being killed. They make oaths to get gain from stealing from people and extortion, drugs etc. What are you on??? This is the real thing that should be worrying you. Not all these people on sites with their heads in the wrong place. It isn't the Masons that are murdering people.
I personally don't know anyone in the Mafia. But I know some Masons and plenty of Mormons. None of whom are murdering people.
Adam and Eve DID die in the day they transgressed. A day with the Lord is a thousand years of our time. Adam lived for 930 years. 70 years short of living for the day.
Hello in There is anybody Home? I hope you dont mind if i turn the lights on!!!!
Sorry for all of the new "Things'" out here in the real world, Like running water, lights, Computers, Law, Justice, physics, science,
What is it exactly like living in a cave of fantasy.
Flying Zebras with Horns and Fangs?
According to Joseph fielding Smith man would never go to the Moon or leave this Planet,
So what say you, no man on the Moon?
"Look, let me make it simple for you. I'm far from impressed by police, lawyers, judges, politicians, psycs, doctors, professors, teachers, "scientists" (those working in areas that don't produce anything provable and useful),"
Annon:
Can you please give me the reference where Joseph Smith said man would never go to the moon? Or leave this planet?
David
Will you Repent if I Do?
What would it Matter any way as soon as something is" proven" either the science is wrong, or there is a three Level "Secret" sacred science or it was Just an Opinion!!!!!!
By the Way it was a "Joseph F Smith" not J.S.2nd
Get ready to repent!!!!!
Okay Did you Repent Yet???????
Mormons: Was Joseph Fielding Smith's prophecy that man would never walk on the moon Divinely Inspired?
May 14, 1961 - Apostle Joseph Fielding Smith announces to stake conference in Honolulu:
"We will never get a man into space. This earth is man's sphere and it was never intended that he should get away from it."
Smith, the Twelve's president and next in succession as LDS President, adds:
"The moon is a superior planet to the earth and it was never intended that man should go there. You can write it down in your books that this will never happen."
This discourse was given while he was the "prophet".
The funny part is that after Apollo 15's journey to the moon, the astronaut team brought JFS a Utah State Flag that they had taken with them to the moon. They gave him the flag in 1971 as a token of his "failed prophecy".
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070402104402AAdzysL
Be careful soon you will believe in UFOs and the reptilians under SLC.
Hop, Skip and Jump. then you can repent.
Quakers on the Moon or on the Box of cereal??????
The thought of life on other worlds was clearly taught by both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. According to Oliver B. Huntington, Joseph Smith instructed, "The inhabitants of the moon are more of a uniform size than the inhabitants of the earth, being about six feet in height. They dress very much like the Quaker style and are quite general in style or the one fashion of dress. They live to be very old; coming generally, near a thousand years" (History of the Life of Oliver B. Huntington, pg. 10, typed copy, University of Utah). Huntington also records: "In my patriarchal blessing, given by the father of Joseph the Prophet, in Kirtland, 1837, I was told that I should preach the gospel before I was 21 years of age; that I should preach the gospel to the inhabitants upon the islands of the sea, and -- to the inhabitants of the moon, even the planet you can now see with your eyes" (The Young Women's Journal 3:264, 1892).
" Who can tell us of the inhabitants of this little planet that shines of an evening, called the moon? When we view its face we may see what is termed "the man in the moon," and what some philosophers declare are the shadows of mountains. But these sayings are very vague, and amount to nothing; and when you inquire about the inhabitants of that sphere you find that the most learned are as ignorant in regard to them as the most ignorant of their fellows. So it is with regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain. It was made to give light to those who dwell upon it, and to other planets; and so will this earth when it is celestialized" (Journal of Discourses 13:271).
http://mrm.org/aliens
http://blog.mrm.org/
Did you repent Yet?????
If science is Not your Game, Maybe you prefer the World Magick View.
"The Garden of Eden was in Missouri. Noah was taken to the Old World by the Flood. This teaching was given by Joseph Smith and is still accepted as true doctrine. Given this teaching, Mormons have to accept the flood as a global phenomenon." (Mormon Doctrine, Bruce McConkie, "Adam-Ondi-Ahman" p. 19-20)
I really like this MORMON FABLE of ZION be in the USA and Being "High on a Mountain TOP" in SLC and in the Flat Lands, If I were Jewish I would be mad at the Mormons for making me a Gentile and for Stealing Zion- Splitting scriptures to make up this non-sense of Mormon Zion!!!!!!!
Please do an Article on the Mystery of Mormon Zion!
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord’s house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. --Isaiah 2:2
www.mormonwiki.com/Zion
According to modern day revelation, Zion is a city that will be built near Jackson County, Missouri (see Doctrine and Covenants 45:66-67). This Zion in Missouri, also referred to as the New Jerusalem, will be the gathering place of the tribe of Ephraim before Christ’s second coming. The "Ten Lost Tribes" will gather to New Jerusalem; many from those tribes will then return to Israel.
We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisaical glory.
During Christ’s millennial reign there will be two seats of government, one in Jerusalem, Israel, and one in New Jerusalem on the American Continent:
And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem (Micah 4:2).
"Jackson County" is not in the top of the Mountains,
Utah and SLC and the LDS broke the Law and were a Law unto them Self.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us ago up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
This is the Same place, not two places.
Ish 33:20-22
20 Look upon Zion, the city of our solemnities: thine eyes shall see Jerusalem a quiet habitation, a tabernacle that shall not be taken down; not one of the stakes thereof shall ever be removed, neither shall any of the cords thereof be broken.
21 But there the glorious Lord will be unto us a place of broad rivers and streams; wherein shall go no galley with oars, neither shall gallant ship pass thereby.
22 For the Lord is our judge, the Lord is our lawgiver, the Lord is our king; he will save us.
D&C 84:1-4
1 A REVELATION of Jesus Christ unto his servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and six elders, as theybunited their hearts andclifted their voices on high.
2 Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion, which shall be the city of New Jerusalem.
3 Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased.
4 Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in .
ZECHARIAH CHAPTER 8
3 Thus saith the Lord; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the Lord of hosts the holy mountain.
22 Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the Lord of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the Lord.
23 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.
JEREMIAH CHAPTER 3
18 In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers.
JER 50:44 ¶ In those days, and in that time, saith the Lord, the children of Israel shall acome, they and the children of Judah , going and weeping: they shall go, and seek the Lord their God.
5 They shall ask the way to Zion with their faces thitherward, saying, Come, and let us join ourselves to the Lord in a perpetual covenant that shall not be forgotten.
6 and no that land is not in Jackson County!!!!!!!
Elder Victor Moxley
That is rather Brave of You, I like the Idea of online Missionaries, When I was on my Mission I got tired of all the Utah Missionaries claiming they were from
"Zion".
In fact the Mormons lost "their" Zion because of wickedness and were cast into the Desert.
CHURCH NEWS had publish a few silly articles claiming that Utah was Zion Quoting --Isaiah 2:2
Now you repeat that same Mistake
Tell all of you Buddies that when they Repent that they to can come out of the desert and Flee to the real Zion in Jerusalem.
Because of pride Mormons like to see themselves as "Saviours" on Mount ZION.
ZECHARIAH CHAPTER 8
3 Thus saith the Lord; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the Lord of hosts the holy mountain.
22 Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the Lord of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the Lord.
If you can preach and knock on the door can you hear the truth Knocking?????
OH by the way I like Mormons and the Truth it is just they are two different Things.
The Latter-day Saints lost their Zion the same way the Lord's people of past generations and time have lost their Zion before. They broke the covenant that the Lord had made with them, by seeking contention, neglecting those that stand in need.
My prayer his anointed in this generation, can lift up their voices without contention, publish peace, and extend blessings to all as the Savior they represent. I know that Zion is wherever the Lord's people may be. I thank you for your good will towards Mormons, and your understanding that a covenant people are not necessarily one and the same with the truth or green jello they hold.
Anonymous
I remember playing a game where we had people in a line. One was given a note and had to recite the statement to the next person. Then each person had to recite their recollection of that statement to the next person and so on down the line. The the last person stated their version of what was said.
The version at the end bore absolutely no relationship to the original statement. Quoting people's recollections of what someone else said is dodgy at best.
You obviously placed your faith in man, and feel they have let you down. Our knowledge of the moon isn't very wide. And our knowledge of the sun is non-existent.
So I'm not going to make some comment on Joseph's opinions.
As to JFS I can't support a man's statements where he takes his personal opinion and doesn't listen to revelation. Which obviously is the case here.
But as to me needing to repent because someone else makes a mistake and I still know he was a prophet, that is different.
You keep quoting bits from the Bible but you don't seem to know it well. If you want recorded errors of prophets, in the Bible I can show you plenty, plainly declared to be such by the Bible writers. This doesn't make a man not a prophet.
If you picked a religion I could show you piles of ways that the religion contradits itself. I have studied and been brought up in many protestant churches. I can demonstrate seemingly endless Biblical errors of their doctrine and contraditions.
However in the church I don't have this problem. And you haven't demonstrated any.
Furthermore let me say that Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost have given me MANY revelations over these last decades. ALL these have proven accurate over time.
Yet I must in all fairness say that I originally made misinterpretations of things he has shown me by vision. Why? Because as a person I interpret the statement. In time, and with further study, I have come to see that misinterpretation.
Also in my early time I threw in what I believe to be revelations of my own. Thus I needed to learn the difference.
So I have no problem accepting errors on behalf of prophetic people. God lets us learn at the rate we are capable of learning at - line upon line, precept upon precept; here a LITTLE there a LITTLE.
As to the Jews we don't make them Gentiles. That is rubbish.
As to where the final Zion will really be built in the Americas, only God knows. But God can make mountains where there are valleys and valleys where there are mountains, as is prophesied. So I wouldn't get too hung up on that.
MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN.Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting.
No attempt is here to be made against a person or to insult. only a pursuit of the truth, from My point of view
and the persuit of the Truth, from my perspective being One not trusting(To lean on with confidence) in Mormonism.
I start with my best I can in my Human state.
I was raised Mormon, and I believe and in God as Best I know. In or out of the church God will still Exist and be real, With or with out Your or my acknowledgement GOD, TRUTH, His Work and WORD will Exist, There is a level of Truth and Gods workings in all things, here (mormonmysticism) we can say say our views and Let what is Truth Prevail .
GOD will weigh us and our statements, in the end I hope none of us our Found wanting and that God will extend Mercy on us.
Writing and vocalizing is good to increase Focus and to get others points of View.
So the chase and fight for truth is on.
Pick your Best weapon. If I poke you with my weapon or poke fun of Mormonisms Take it with two Humors and Godspeed.
Ps. 149: 6
6 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a twoedged sword in their hand
Heb. 4: 12
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing sunder eof soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN
Zion refers to the New Jerusalem, a physical, Millennial city expected to be located in Independence, Jackson County, Missouri,
(D&C 57:1-5), this is said to be located in Jackson County, Missouri and its county seat, the city of Independence, Missouri. The region of Kansas City Metropolitan Area remains important today in LDS Church
Make sure You Tell those in SLC to Repent-----
The Saints failed to live the higher laws in the center stake of Zion in Missouri so they were expelled. During the four years at Nauvoo, there was not even an attempt to live the United Order, for example, so they were again driven out. They became like the children of Israel in the desert with only the hope of keeping Zion's laws. But here in the valleys of the Rocky Mountains we have done worse than in Missouri and Illinois. For a few years after the pioneers arrived, an attempt was made to live the United Order and plural marriage, but both leaders and members failed to continue those important laws. Thus, the Church has gone astray from keeping all the laws of Zion, and the redemption of Zion is seldom even mentioned.
Yep In the Desert "Mormon Zion" was not to be Moved out of Her Place
The Kingdom of God on Earth or the Government of God on Earth- Who was the Mormon King?
Joseph Smith!!!!!!
Joseph Smith for President
There’s another movie about Mormonism in the works.
http://blog.mrm.org/2007/05
/joseph-smith-for-president/
This film may be upsetting to “anti-Mormons” because it shows what a generous man and visionary leader Joseph Smith was. It may shock some Mormons because it documents the untold story of Smith’s secret marriages to more than 30 women and his campaign for President which led directly to his murder in 1844…This is a serious piece, but it will be very engaging. I’ve been fascinated by Joseph Smith’s story ever since I was a kid. Here’s a man who started a religion, built a city bigger than Chicago in its day, became a Master Mason, and ran for President. He packed more adventure into 3 years than most people experience in a lifetime.
For instance, many people don’t know that Smith was secretly crowned king on April 11, 1844.
William Marks…stated that the [LDS] Council of Fifty performed an ordinance “in which Joseph suffered himself to be ordained a king, to reign over the house of Israel forever.”Some have been uncomfortable with the assertion that Smith became a king. They have claimed that Marks and other critics either confused or misrepresented Smith’s reception of the strictly religious ceremony of the second anointing as “king and priest.”…
In fact a later revelation to the Council of Fifty affirmed that God called Smith “to be a Prophet, Seer and Revelator to my Church and Kingdom; and to be a King and Ruler over Israel.” (The Mormon Hierarchy, Origins of Power, 124)
Mormon View
http://en.fairmormon.org/The_Council_of_Fifty
Secular
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Fifty
Mormon View, The Word of God Gospel shall come out of Jerusalem in Jerusalem.
and The Government of God shall be seated in
ackson County, Missouri and its county seat, the city of Independence, Missouri. The region of Kansas City Metropolitan Area
With President and King Joseph Smith
D&C 97: 10 Verily I say unto you, that it is my will that a house should be built unto me in the land of Zion, like unto the pattern which I have you.
8 And, now, behold, if Zion do these things she shall prosper, and spread herself and become very glorious, very great, and very terrible.
19 And the nations of the earth shall honor her, and shall say: Surely Zion is the city of our God, and surely Zion cannot fall, neither be out of her place, for God is there, and the hand of the Lord is there.
35 and organize my kingdom upon the consecrated land.
D&C 101: 17 Zion shall not be moved out of her place 18 build up the waste places of Zion—
-purchase all the lands with money, which can be purchased for money, in the region round about the land which I have appointed to be the land of Zion, for the beginning of the gathering of my saints;
D&C 124: 11 Awake, O kings of the earth! Come ye, O, come ye, with your gold and your silver, to the help of my people, to the house of the daughters of Zion.D&C 63: 29 Wherefore, the land of Zion shall not be obtained but by purchase or by ,
Mormon Zion shall NOT BE MOVED
Here is the Perfect Scripture that Mormons take out of context and try to split in 2-TWO
Micah 4: 2, 7-8, 10-11, 13
2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord(for Mormon this is SLC or Jackson county), and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the claw shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. • • •
7 And I will make her that halted a remnant, and her that was cast far off a strong nation: and the Lord ( Not KING J.S.)shall reign over them in mount Zion from henceforth, even for ever.
8 ¶ And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem.
Isa. 52: 1-2, 7-8
1 Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful egarments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean.
2 Shake thyself from the dust; arise, and sit down, O Jerusalem: loose thyself from the bands of thy neck, O captive daughter of Zion.
Joel 2: 32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call.
PS 48:11 11 Let mount Zion rejoice, let the daughters of Judah be glad, because of thy judgments.
Joel 3:17 So shall ye know that I am the Lord your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.
Zion is in Jerusalem, Not Jackson county and Christ is King Not Joseph, MORMON FABLE ZION
Anonymous,
I am saddened to see that you have no good news to live by and have no way of encouraging and uplifting others unto God through Jesus Christ and His gospel. I was really hoping to have something good to build upon with you unto union in Christ although there are obvious differences in our personal preferences.
Please forgive the blunt nature of this question, but I think it is one that you should seriously consider.
ARE YOU EVER GOING TO PROMOTE ANY POSITIVE METHODS OF IMPLEMENTING THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST UNTO THE FULFILLING OF GOD’S PURPOSES OR ARE YOU SO ATE UP WITH DARKNESS AND VENOM THAT YOU WILL CONTINUE UNCEASINGLY TO PREY UPON HUMBLE FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST AND CONTINUE TO SEEK TO DISCOURAGE THEM FROM EXERCISING FAITH IN THE REVELATIONS HE HAS GIVEN THEM BECAUSE OF HIS MERCY AND GRACE?
I was raised in the Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints, but as a teenager fell away completely from any contact with it or its members. Independent of anything mankind has ever presented me, God manifested Himself unto me, forgave me of my sins, and invited me to learn to receive of His fullness by embracing the things that my parents and Church leaders taught me as a youth. He invited me to do this so that through those things I could better learn how to wholly rely upon the Atonement of Jesus Christ and become perfected through His Holy Spirit. The same God, Jesus, and Holy Ghost who are helping me to become one with them while endorsing the LDS Church are the same Godhead that are helping me learn how to love you and desire your obtainment of their fullness despite your constant predatory antagonism. I do not worship the Book of Mormon or the Bible, Joseph Smith, temple rites, priesthoods, or the Church, but use those things to support my worship of God and the implementation of the Atonement of Jesus Christ.
Is it better for me to follow the Almighty God of Unconditional Love and Eternal Life or to yield to your endless supply of SECULAR REFERENCES and OPINIONS? You back up none of your views with the power of God, personal revelation, or present it through His love.
To speak in behalf of the other readers who have come to utilize the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ because of exercising faith in DIRECT REVELATION FROM GOD, “we ought to obey God rather than man” (Acts 5:29) and his SECULAR REFERENCES!!!
Only one person to ever walk this earth was perfect in everything He thought and said, that was Jesus Christ the Son of God. NO PROPHET AT ANY TIME WAS PERFECT, WE ALL HAVE TO GROW, LEARN, AND GAIN GREATER UNDERSTANDING NO MATTER WHAT GOD HAS EVER REVEALED TO US!!!
Because of the Love of God which is in me and my desire that you receive of His fullness I warn you in His Holy Name that as you continue to condemn the Church of Jesus Christ and His anointed servants, that “if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not the things of God, that ye may be found spotless at the judgment-seat of Christ” (BOM title page)!
Your brother in Christ
Michael
Truth and Freedom Beware of False Prophets. Jesus is the King, Before you can know the truth sometimes you need to see the Lies.
You profess Jesus, good so do the Demons and all churches, This is about the TRUTH and lies, If you think your Church and Temples will save you They will not.
Your reading of many books and much talking will Not.
Jesus Saves --
and hiding behind your phrases about your Gospel and your 'god' will not save you .
If you are caught in some "Mormon Zion" that is false would you not want to know?
Or would you rather sing
"Praise to the Man"
I recommend you to Praise the LORD
Quit hiding behind your Phrases and Sing Praises to the LORD
You shall know the TRUTH and the Truth will set you free.
Mormon Zion Fable
Anonymous,
What you have just said references things that you have been badgering other readers with and has nothing to do with what I purposed to you. I am not hiding behind anything. It is evident that only you are. God has invited myself along with all of His children (yourself included) to come unto His fullness through the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Ghost.
Obviously you are hiding from that truth and do not endorse it in your attacks upon the readers of this site and the countless others you slander in your remarks!
I want God to succeed for His sake, Christ's sake, YOUR sake and for all of His children's sake. God has revealed to me that this is His desire too-that not one sould be lost.
Is it better for me to follow the Almighty God of Unconditional Love and Eternal Life or to yield to your endless supply of SECULAR REFERENCES and OPINIONS? You back up none of your views with the power of God, personal revelation, or present it through His love.
To speak in behalf of the other readers who have come to utilize the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ because of exercising faith in DIRECT REVELATION FROM GOD, “we ought to obey God rather than man” (Acts 5:29) and his SECULAR REFERENCES!!!
Your badgering about off-topic subjects has in no way invited me to partake of God's fullness through Christ or encouraged me to do anything other than to praise God while you persecute me for issues that you have not resolved with others. What kind of missionary/representative of Christ are you? Is there some aim in mind to your constant badgering? Are you actually trying to accomplish the ultimate purposes of God?
If you don't mind me asking, what do you believe the ultimate purpose of God is? And how are you helping the readers of this site to embrace it?
Please don't start ranting about destroying falsehood because that is not the purpose of creation or of the Atoning Sacrifice of Jesus Christ. True disciples throw down false doctrine by promoting true doctrine. Is there any true and positive doctrine you support?Please be serious and don't rant on about Mormon Zion, Masons, Gnostics, Falling Up, or anything else I have not mentioned.
Can you answer real questions about your Gospel understanding or can you just attempt to make low blows because of your ignorence to the things of God that offer satisfaction, fulfillment, and the obtainment of His fullness? I am worried that bitterness has eaten up your ability to be sensitive to God's loving ways and goodness.
Your brother in Christ
Michael
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Freemasonry/Falling Up/ God of Contradiction,
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Mormon Zion-Polygamy-Freemasonry-Lucifer Rite
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Mormonism is a other Gnostic Religion that believes Lucifer was RITE, The Luciferian view of the Fall, Joseph Smith Joined with the Luciferians in the Freemasonic Temple. Swore the Oath and Covenant of Freemasonry Broke the Bloody Vows and was killed in a Gun fight and killed two men in that Gun Fight. Joseph Smith create his own brand of clandestine freemasonry. Was a Polygamist.
A Mormon King and and into Preistcraft.
"I warn you in His Holy Name that as you continue to condemn the Church of Jesus Christ and His anointed servants" ..........
Thanks for the Warning, your words return to you,
Freemasonry Likes to put on their Temples the Phrase "Holiness to the Lord" But Freemasons are in Lucifer's House and Practices Preistcraft, Witchcraft,
And are of Cain's House and god, the other "lord
And Joseph Smith was a FreeMason'
Jesus is My King in the real Zion.
And Joseph Smith is Your King in Fabled Zion,
"TRUTH stands at the Door and Knocks"
In 1826 Freemasonry was the Talk of the Town.
Because of the William Morgan incident.
Every one knew who it was that "they did have their signs, yea, their secret signs, and their secret words; and this that they might distinguish a brother who had entered into the covenant, that whatsoever wickedness his brother should do he should not be injured by his brother, nor by those who did belong to his band, who had taken this covenant.
Blue Lodge Freemasonry is Evil at any and every Level. Freemasonry is the Luciferian Initation....
Secret Combinations and PriestCraft are of Lucifer-Alma 1: 12, 16
12 But Alma said unto him: Behold, this is the first time that priestcraft has been introduced among this people. And behold, thou art not only guilty of priestcraft, but hast endeavored to enforce it by the sword(blood Oaths); and were priestcraft to be enforced(penalties) among this people it would prove their entire destruction.
16 Nevertheless, this did not put an end to the spreading of priestcraft through the land; for there were many who loved the vain things of the world, and they went forth preaching false doctrines; and this they did for the sake of riches and honor.
2 Ne. 26: 29
29 He commandeth that there shall be no priestcrafts; for, behold, priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may getcgain and dpraise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion.
2 Ne. 10: 5
5 But because of priestcrafts and iniquities, they at Jerusalem will stiffen their necks against him, that he be crucified.
3 Ne. 16: 10
10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.
3 Ne. 21: 19
19 And it shall come to pass that all lyings, and deceivings, and envyings, and strifes, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, shall be done away.
3 Ne. 30: 2
2 Turn, all ye aGentiles, from your wicked ways; and repent of your evil doings, of your lyings and deceivings, and of your whoredoms, and of your secret abominations, and your idolatries, and of your murders, and your priestcrafts, and your envyings, and your strifes, and from all your wickedness and abominations, and come unto me, and be baptized in my name, that ye may receive a remission of your sins, and be filled with the Holy Ghost, that ye may be numbered with my people who are of the house of Israel.
D&C 33: 4
4 And my vineyard has become corrupted every whit; and there is none which doeth good save it be a few; and they err in many instances because of priestcrafts, all having corrupt minds.
Freemasonry-PriestCraft-Secret Combinations
Anonymous,
You marvel that I am so soon removed from him that called me into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble me, and would pervert the gospel of Christ?
God the Father called me into the grace of Christ! I don't recall you being there when that happened, so how can you have greater authority than God?
The only perversion of the gospel of Christ that I see on this site that troubles me after having been called in the the grace of Christ by God the Father is your contortions of the truth and constant shifting of things to your favorite off-topic subjects.
I have never mentioned Mormon Zion, Falling Up (in fact I proved that they fell down through the Book of Moses for you), Freemasonry or any of the stuff you just bashed me with. I asked you about the gospel of Christ, to empower me unto God, to reach out to me in His love, to share with me testimony of His revelations to you through His grace and Spirit. AND ALL YOU CAN DO IS ATTACK ME WITH THINGS THAT HAVE NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH PROMOTING THE GOOD NEWS OF JESUS CHRIST.
I ask you about the Bread of Life and Living Waters and you attempt to piss in my face in the name of Jesus. How dare you desecrate His Holy and Sacred name and have the audacity to call me to repentance for some accusations that you have against others. You hypocrite and devil, Christ is trying to stir up within you some sensitivities about His grace and mercy through my questions to you and all you can do is attack me about off-topic subjects. NO WONDER YOU ARE SO TORN AND FEEL SO LOST!!! HOW CAN THE BLIND THINK THEY CAN LEAD THOSE WHOM THEY DEEM BLIND?
I ask you to teach me God's ultimate purpose so that I can exercise faith in it through Christ's name and you condemn me based upon what others have done.
Way to chalk up the score for heaven! Whose side are you on?
Your heart-broken brother in Christ
Michael
Oh Humble one of broken Heart and contrite spirit,
Okay you won!!!!!!!
That art the Most Humble One!!!!!
I share this with you GOD is Not a LIAR.
Lucifer is The LIAR from the Beginning.
God is not a God of contradiction.
God is Not the Author of Confusion.
God is NOT the God of Freemasonry.
God is Not a Freemason.
God is Not Lucifer.
God gave Adam thee tree of Life.
Adam because of Eve obeyed Lucifer.
God GAVE Adam Free the Tree of LIFE
ADAM rejected the Free Gift.
10 And it came to pass that I beheld a tree, whose fruit was desirable to make one cappy.
11 And it came to pass that I did go forth and partake of the fruit thereof; and I beheld that it was most sweet, above all that I ever before tasted. Yea, and I beheld that the fruit thereof was white, to exceed all the whiteness that I had ever seen.
12 And as I partook of the fruit thereof it filled my soul with exceedingly great joy; wherefore, I began to be desirous that my family should partake of it also; for I knew that it was desirable above all other fruit.
18 And it came to pass that I saw them, but they would not come unto me and partake of the fruit.
-Because the liked the OTHER tree
1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and cevil.
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for afood, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree cto be desired to make one wise, she took of the dfruit thereof, and did eeat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
Two Pleasant Fruit, Two "gods"
Choose you"god"- Choose your Fruit
You Believe is was of your "gods" will that Adam partook.
My GOD said NO
Your "god" said Yessssssssssssss like a Snake.
All Aboard!!!!!! This Train Going Down cause we is all Falling-UP.
"I don't personally feel like the Church has ever taught me to feel like Adam and Eve "Fell Up"
Here you Go!!!!! http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Fall_of_Adam
The Fall was a necessary step in the eternal progress of mankind -And Eve was glad-The Fall was not an accident, not an obstruction to God's plan, and not a wrong turn in the course of humanity.
www.mormonwiki.com/Fall
Most of the Christian world believes that eating the "forbidden fruit" was a sinful act and therefore merited a severe punishment—death.
(Most Christians -not Gnostic Mormons)
The "curses" the Lord inflicted on Adam and Eve after they partook of the fruit, are actually not curses at all, (Lucifer's Blessings)
Mormons discuss the eating of the forbidden fruit as a "transgression," not as a "sin." It was not a sinful act, but a necessary act which Eve and then Adam bravely took upon themselves. Many centuries later, Moses described a vision wherein he saw Adam and Eve rejoicing:(Yea I Obeyed Lucifer and Disobeyed GOD)
www.jefflindsay.com/adam.shtml#intro
Latter-day Saints differ from much of modern "mainstream" Christianity in their views on the Fall of man. Many other Christians teach that God intended for mankind to remain in the Garden of Eden without knowledge of good and evil, childlike and innocent.
(With THE TREE OF LIFE MOST PLEASANT)
The Fall was not a disaster. It wasn’t a mistake or an accident. It was a deliberate part of the plan of salvation- However, Mormons understand that Adam and Eve acted in great wisdom when making their choice. - McConkie, "It is not possible to believe in Christ and his atoning sacrifice, in the true and full sense required to gain salvation, without at the same time believing and accepting the true doctrine of the fall" (NWAF, p. 82).
This was a transgression of the law, but not a sin in the strict sense, for it was something that Adam and Eve had to do!" (Ibid., p. 115). "The 'fall' of Adam and Eve was not a sin but an essential act upon which mortality depends" (Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, vol. 5, p. 15). He goes so far as to cast the Fall in terms of obedience rather than transgression:
"After they had thus complied with whatever the law was that brought mortality into being,..." and "He [Adam] chose the Lord's way;" (Ibid., pp. 86, 91; emphasis added). Assistant to the Twelve Apostles Sterling W. Sill spoke of Adam's fall: "Adam fell, but he fell in the right direction. He fell toward the goal.... Adam fell, but he fell upward" (Deseret News, Church Section, 31 July 1965, p. 7).
I would just like to let you all know i fell up and i can not get Down!!!!!!!
Last, but not least, remember that Adam and Eve were to eliminate sins of omission as well as commission (MF, p. 5). If the two commandments, one to multiply and fill the earth, and the other not to eat of the forbidden fruit, were in opposition so that they could not both be obeyed at the same time, and if the former was a greater commandment than the latter, then why were they not counted transgressors before eating the forbidden fruit, for failing to multiply? Why did that not incur the Fall? Indeed, why were they counted transgressors for breaking the lesser of the two commandments when, up to that time, they were failing to live up to the greater of the two, and had not even taken the first, most elemental step toward compliance?
And if this was such a blessing, then when they heard God walking in the Garden, why did they not go running to Him clapping their hands, breathless with excitement over fulfilling His plan, acquiring new knowledge, and initiating mortality? "Oh, Father! We have complied with Your greater commandment and are ready for procreation. Now the rest of Your children, our brothers and sisters, will have opportunity to enjoy the same wonderful benefits as us!"
Why, instead, did they suddenly feel guilty and afraid, and try to hide from God? Previous to that time they had no more idea of guilt than they did of right and wrong, so it could not have been a false, self-imposed guilt. It had to have been consciousness of the actual guilt of doing wrong. If their action was not sin, how did they acquire their sudden awareness of right and wrong (Genesis 3:7, 22)? Why did they seek to put blame on others and excuse themselves for their action if it was no sin?
In another vein, if the original (non)-sin of Adam and Eve brought both physical and spiritual death, why is it that our own sins, if unrepented of, incur only spiritual and not also physical death for eternity? Adam knew no evil prior to sinning, knew no real difference between right and wrong. But of all men after Adam, the Book of Mormon says they "are instructed sufficiently that they know good from evil" (2 Nephi 2:5). On the principle of "where much is given, much is required" (Luke 12:47-8), our personal sins being committed with a knowledge of right and wrong would seem to be more serious than Adam's first transgression. Yet they incur a lesser penalty in eternity than Adam's (non)-sin. Why?
Anonymous,
I am in no contest with you to see who is more humble. The effects of God's grace and Spirit unto me through my feeble efforts to exercise faith in Him cause me to love you and desire your obtaining of the peace and guidance you seek from Him. I want you to learn from Him what He has in store for you so that you will no longer be dependent upon man's resources for your guidance. Look were seclular studies have gotten you. You claim to be torn in some sort of hell and all you do is weep, wail, and gnash teeth at everyone around you. I never said for you to yield to the LDS Church or its doctrines. I am trying to help you connect more fully with God so He can give you what He knows is best for you. You reject my invitations to discuss with you your feelings on the ultimate purpose of God and how to obtain it through Christ's Atonement and the Holy Ghost. Equal ground, I have not invited you to debate about the off-topic subjects you continue to try to jam down my throat.
Why are you more comfotable ranting about secular resources than discussing how to connect more fully with God through Christ and the Holy Ghost? I never told you to use LDS methods. I want you to succeed with God in the way He reveals salvation to you. Why do you keep attacking me about stuff you have issues with the LDS about? I am interested in your success with God not about proving to you through secular means whether LDS is legit or not. Secular knowledge cannot substitute man's relationsip with God.
I don't want to discuss with you things that hinder your growth in Christ, I want to dicuss things with you that increase everyones growth in Christ.
Your brother in Christ
Michael
Only This-Is FreeMasonry of Lucifer?
Is Freemasonry The Gospel?
Is Freemasonry a Luciferian/Gnostic Temple Cult?
What is Freemasonry?
Who sits at Freemasonry's Capital and Head?
What are Grand Lodges?
What are clandestine Lodges?
Who is the Most Worshipful Master?
Why is Freemasonry of Cain and Tubal Cain?
Is Freemasonry the Luciferian Initation?
Do Luciferians swear in the name of The LORD?
Was Joseph Smith a Freemason?
If you can answer these Questions You are on The Path.
If you want to Know the Gospel, Trust God, Search and Pray, and no you were not really Looking because you can not see Past Mormondom
I told you before, God's witness to me was independent of LDS influence. I want to help you receive God's fullness and you want to condemn me. Our judgement of others will be answered upon our own heads. I could tear down your pitiful cowardice attempts to thwart me with off-topic contorted lies so easily and Satan tempts me to. I am more interested in helping you obtain God's fullness through Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. Are you capable of discussing things that promote God's success?
I think Mormonism would like to Hide its history, and replace it with Faith promoting History, Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.
Was Paul preaching a Curse to the Jews?
Was Jesus Christ Preaching a Curse to the "Jews"
Jesus called them the children of The Devil.
And no I Do not want to Get off Issue and make this Personal, Line upon Line, Issue by Issue,
I do not want to attack anyone or Have any one attack me.
Jesus is The TRUTH-God is Truth
Issue By Issue
The Fall
Freemasonry
Gnosticism
Did God lie
Did Lucifer Lie
Did God Give Confused Commands
Polygamy
Things Egyptian
Zion
Christians and Gnostic Mormons are NOT the same.
I believe In God as best I Know.
I know The Mormon and Christian differences because i commit My self to God and the Truth
I am Free i Do not Need a Certificate From Joseph Smith to Go to Heaven. Jesus Is my King in Zion
that no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding-up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are-I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent. He holds the keys of that kingdom for the last dispensation-the keys to rule in the spirit-world; and he rules there triumphantly, for he gained full power and a glorious victory over the power of Satan while he was yet in the flesh, and was a martyr to his religion and to the name of Christ, which gives him a most perfect victory in the spirit-world. He reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as God does in heaven. Many will exclaim-"Oh, that is very disagreeable! It is preposterous! We cannot bear the thought!" But it is true.
Your King Joseph and Brigham as Kings in Zion
NOT MINE
I want to build upon receiving God's fullness through Christ and the Holy Spirit. It seems YOU can't get past Mormondom. I am interested into being conformed into Christ's image through learning to give my whole life to Him and by learning how to have the Holy Ghost sanctify me. YOU are the only one who wants to wallow in discussion of falsehoods. I have no so-called Mormon Agenda. All I am interested in is how to more fully embrace eternal life through Christ.
Did the Mormon Church ex-communicate The Holy Ghost? I would say in the Name of being a Stoic in church that the Gifts of the Holy Ghost are Suppressed, and frond upon, I am talking in the Here and Now . Not talking about some story in some old Book or someone said someone said.
Church on Sunday, Today !, and no Fast and testimony meetings have Turned into Travel Logs and emotional sickness,
What Happened to the gifts?
Morm 1: 14
14 And there were no gifts from the Lord, and the Holy Ghost did not come upon any, because of their wickedness and unbelief.
33 And it came to pass that when Ammon arose he also administered unto them, and also did all the servants of Lamoni; and they did all declare unto the people the selfsame thing—that their hearts had been changed; that they had no more desire to do evil.
34 And behold, many did declare unto the people that they had seen angels and had conversed with them; and thus they had told them things of God, and of his righteousness.
14 And now behold, I ask of you, my brethren of the church, have ye spiritually been bborn of God? Have ye received his image in your countenances? Have ye experienced this mighty change in your hearts?
3rd Nephi 29:6
6 Yea, wo unto him that shall deny the revelations of the Lord, and that shall say the Lord no longer worketh by revelation, or by prophecy, or by gifts, or by tongues, or by healings, or by the power of the Holy Ghost!
7 Yea, and wo unto him that shall say at that day, to get again, that there can be no miracle wrought by Jesus Christ; for he that doeth this shall become like unto the son of perdition, for whom there was no mercy, according to the word of Christ!
2 Turn, all ye Gentiles, from your wicked ways; and repent of your evil doings, of your lyings and deceivings, and of your whoredoms, and of your secret abominations, and your idolatries, and of your murders, and your priestcrafts, and your envyings, and your strifes, and from all your wickedness and abominations, and come unto me, and be baptized in my name, that ye may receive a remission of your sins, and be filled with the Holy Ghost, that ye may be numbered with my people who are of the house of Israel.
What Happened- people could/should share Holy Ghost Ideas and Experiences that are recent.
Bishop call 911 the Holy Ghost was Here today it is an Emergency, call the Doctor, call the Police!!!!
Alma 19: 14 Now Ammon seeing the Spirit of the Lord poured out according to his prayers upon the Lamanites, his brethren, who had been the cause of so much mourning among the Nephites, or among all the people of God because of their iniquities and their btraditions, he fell upon his knees, and began to pour out his soul in prayer and thanksgiving to God for what he had done for his brethren; and he was also overpowered with joy; and thus they all three had dsunk to the earth.
15 Now, when the servants of the king had seen that they had fallen, they also began to cry unto God, for the fear of the Lord had come upon them also, for it was athey who had stood before the king and testified unto him concerning the great power of Ammon.
16 And it came to pass that they did call on the name of the Lord, in their might, even until they had all fallen to the earth, save it were one of the Lamanitish women, whose name was Abish, she having been converted unto the Lord for many years, on account of a remarkable vision of her father—
17 Thus, having been converted to the Lord, and never having made it known, therefore, when she saw that all the servants of Lamoni had fallen to the earth, and also her mistress, the queen, and the king, and Ammon lay prostrate upon the earth, she knew that it was the power of God; and supposing that this opportunity, by making known unto the people what had happened among them, that by beholding this scene it would cause them to believe in the power of God, therefore she ran forth from house to house, making it known unto the people.
18 And they began to assemble themselves together unto the house of the king. And there came a multitude, and to their astonishment, they beheld the king, and the queen, and their servants prostrate upon the earth, and they all lay there as though they were dead; and they also saw Ammon, and behold, he was a Nephite.
19 And now the people began to murmur among themselves; some saying that it was a great evil that had come upon them, or upon the king and his house, because he had suffered that the Nephite should remain in the land.
2 Nephi 31:13-14 then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost; and then can ye speak with the tongue of angels, and shout praises unto the Holy One of Israel.
...and have received the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost, and can speak with a new tongue, yea, even with the tongue of angels, and after this should deny me, it would have been better for you that ye had not known me.
3 Ne. 19: 9
9 And they did pray for that which they most desired; and they desired that the Holy Ghost should be given unto them.
1st Nephi 10: 19 For he that diligently seeketh shall find; and the Mysteries of God shall be unfolded unto them, by the power of the Holy Ghost
2 Ne. 32: 2-3, 5
2 Do ye not remember that I said unto you that after ye had received the Holy Ghost ye could speak with the tongue of angels? And now, how could ye speak with the tongue of angels save it were by the Holy Ghost?
3 Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do.
Acts 2: 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
2 Ne. 28: 4, 26, 31
4 And they shall contend one with another; and their priests shall contend one with another, and they shall teach with their learning
(mysticism/gnosticsm), and deny the Holy Ghost, which giveth utterance
26 Yea, wo be unto him that hearkeneth unto the precepts of men, and denieth the power of God, and the gift of the Holy Ghost!
Acts 19: 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Acts 7: 51,
51 ¶ Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye
John 14: 26
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things,
Alma 9: 21
21 Having been visited by the Spirit of God; having conversed with angels, and having been spoken unto by the voice of the Lord; and having the spirit of prophecy, and the spirit of revelation, and also many gifts, the gift of speaking with tongues, and the gift of preaching, and the gift of the Holy Ghost, and the gift of translation;
3 Ne. 29: 6
6 Yea, wo unto him that shall deny the revelations of the Lord, and that shall say the Lord no longer worketh by revelation, or by prophecy, or by gifts, or by tongues, or by healings, or by the power of the Holy Ghost!
Morm. 1: 14
14 And there were no gifts from the Lord, and the Holy Ghost did not come upon any, because of their wickedness and unbelief.
7 We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
"HOLY GHOST" people could/should share Ideas and Experience that are recent.
Regaurding the Holy Ghost it seems like " between two percent and five percent of our people were involved in it. It was a very limited practice; carefully safeguarded. In 1890, that practice was discontinued.it is behind us"
(quoted out of context but relavent)
I agree. It is sad when members of any congregation choose secular resources over the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. Whether one chooses secular-mormonism, secular-anti-mormonism, or any other secular means to replace the power of God they will only end up with misery, bitterness, confusion, and will be reduced to weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth. We see a type in the two trees of Eden. While Adam and Eve partook of the Tree of Life they were happy and enjoyed God's presence and lived in peace. After viewing things through the Knowledge of Good and Evil they hid from the presence of God and then became accusers of one another.
The choice to reduce God's Word to secular information has robbed His children of joy and pitted them against each other in fierce rivalry.
In my own congregation it breaks my heart to see the LDS people reduce God's power into secular-mormonism. Likewise it breaks my heart to see other christians choose secular means to justify antagonism towards one another.
In either case the individual begins to rely more upon secular means and to hide from the presence of God. Pretty soon it becomes a war of words and all parties become subject to the misery of the devil.
That is why it is so important that we individually focus on and outwardly promote obtaining God's fullness through the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Ghost instead of preoccupying our time with secular perspectives no matter what side of the line we are on.
We can only find eternal life and unity as we use God's gifts of gospel appendages to help us gain greater access to His presence through the Atonement and Holy Spirit.
Secularizing anything in mortality robs the individual of eternal life and joy.
Being that we are of the Generations after the fall and that our Generations are not pure nor is our Language.
I am Secular, Our scriptures are Secular, Our Words are Secular. Our History is Secular, Our thoughts are Secular and then we Try through our Fallen state to Connect to That which is Spiritual.
That is why there are some things hard to Put into Words.
Three Words that Relate to God
TRUST
TRUTH
COURAGE
Hiding yourself from Truth behind FPH Faith Promoting History and Political Spin is due to a lack of Trust and Courage.
Jesus is the Way the Truth, and the Life and Light of the World. We need to Know the TRUTH on all
levels, as we Know the TRUTH and apply IT in our lives IT will sat us Free. We Must Build upon the Truth and Have the Courage to open our eyes and ears to the Truth and not just in selective ways.
TRUTH cannot Redeem us in we do not TRUST in TRUTH and have the Courage to act and see.
Everyone Can approach the Truth from different Angles, Some can Direct the way to The Truth, Some can point out Falsehoods and Lies.
Each persons Mission and Calling is and will Be different, Callings and Missions will be different.
Resource Material can and will come from different places, some will come from the Scriptures, Some from History, some from Records, and some from the Sciences; Physics, Math, Time, Space, Matter, Energy, English, Language, Weights, and Measures,
Each May wish to Focus on different aspect of
"truth" from their perspective.
Some will Not have the Courage to transverse from one subject or resource to another, some for lack of "trust" and some for the lack of "truth'
The insane and those of frenzied fanatical mind
will be blinded by their own weakness or lack of ability to see or say the Truth.
Some will be blinded by Pride and Tradition- Prideful Traditions, Being a light unto Themselves
TRUST in the Trustworthy GOD
TRUST in the Truthful GOD
COURAGE built upon TRUTH and TRUST
courage to see and Act.
Some will find every excuse to wallow in secularism and continue to be baffled by the fact that they remain miserable and in constant need of others to blame.
Some will have the courage to rely wholly upon the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Ghost unto the fullness of God while learning to find joy and loving their enemies.
Okay Lets see what the Scriptures Say-
Jer. 2: 19, 30
19 Thine own wickedness shall correct thee, and thy backslidings shall reprove thee: know therefore and see that it is an evil thing and bitter, that thou hast forsaken the Lord thy God, and that my fear is not in thee, saith the Lord God of hosts.
Prov. 3: 11
My son, despise not the chastening of the Lord; neither be weary of his correction:
Prov. 15: 10
10 Correction is grievous unto him that forsaketh the way: and he that hateth reproof shall die.
Jer. 30: 11
11 For I am with thee, saith the Lord, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.
2 Tim. 3: 16
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Matt 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
TRUTH
TRUST
COURAGE
HOLINESS
Is the True GOD trustworthy?
1 Tim. 6: 3, 5-6, 11
3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.
11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God’s throne:
35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
THESSALONIANS CHAPTER 5
16 Rejoice evermore. 17 Pray without ceasing.
18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you. 19 Quench not the Spirit. 20 Despise not prophesyings.
21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
It shall be my Intent to keep my comments Here In
HOUSE KEEPING and not in other Post- as not to pollute The other post -unless i would like to Make comment.
What can we Learn of Freemasonry From the Scriptures?
What Can we Learn about Exaltation Thru Freemasonry and the Scriptures,
Is it Good, Holy and RITE that we should persue Masonry in our quest toward Exaltation, The LDS church has removed ANY prohibitions Against Joining Freemasonry Freemasonry Has 12, 33,99
Degrees and RITES, What about The Temple and Freemasonry, what do the scriptures Say?
Should we Be "climbing" the Tower of Exaltation pass
the (MASTER MASON) 3rd Degree?
What can we glean from the Higher Degrees,
Shall we all not continue in the Foot Steps of Joseph Smith and all be Good Master Masons "climbing" toward Glory in the Highest,
Does Jesus Sit a the Top of The Highest Degrees of Freemasonry, Are we Brothers and Children of GOD and His Son Jesus Christ in The Masonic Temple?
What do the Scriptures say?
Can I Work out my Salvation with fear and trembling in The Freemasonic Temple?
Is the Masonic Temple "THE HOUSE OF THE LORD'
What do the Scriptures Say?
Does the FATHER AND SON sit in the HOLY OF HOLIES in the MASONIC TEMPLE, what do the Scriptures Say?
Can one Become closer to God and His Son Through
The Rites and Ordinances of The Freemasonic Temple?
By Going to the Temple That Houses the Higher Degrees Like the 7th (Seventh Degree) the
RITE of EXALTATION and CALLING AND ELECTION MADE SURE will I be One with God?
Will I receive The Second Comforter In The Freemasonic TEMPLE,
What do the Scriptures SAY?
What can we Learn about The exact Process of Translation/Writing of the Book of Mormon?
What about the Dispute of Joseph Smith and Polygamy,
did He ever really Practice, Teach or Preach Polygamy?
What do the Scriptures, Say
Mark 12:10 And have ye not read this scripture; The astone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:
11 This was the Lord’s doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
Matt 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord’s doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
13 But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
14 ¶ Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing ascourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
16 ¶ Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
18 ¶ And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.
Ish 30 :19 19 For the people shall dwell in Zion at Jerusalem: thou shalt weep no more: he will be very gracious unto thee at the voice of thy cry; when he shall hear it, he will answer thee.
Ps 118; 22 22 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner.
Proverbs 22
19 That thy trust may be in the Lord, I have made known to thee this day, even to thee.
20 Have not I written to thee excellent things in counsels and knowledge,
21 That I might make thee know the certainty of the words of truth; that thou mightest answer the words of truth to them that send unto thee?
You continue to rant about anti-mormonism when I have not said anything uniquely mormon. I invite you to cleave unto God's fullness through Christ's Atonement and the power of the Holy Ghost, and to share your personal testimony of God's manifestions in your life as a means to encourage yourself and others. All you can do is quote secular sources and rant about masons, and stuff I have nothing to do with.
God's power, presence, grace, Son, and Spirit are not secular or man's opinion.
Why do you continue to love the works of man above the power of God and His Christ in your life?
TRUTH
TRUST
COURAGE
HOLINESS
RIGHTEOUNESS
JERM 23:
11 For both prophet and priest are profane; yea, in my house have I found their wickedness, saith the Lord.
12 Wherefore their way shall be unto them as slippery ways in the darkness: they shall be driven on, and fall therein: for I will bring evil upon them, even the year of their visitation, saith the Lord.
5 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
15 Therefore thus saith the Lord of hosts concerning the prophets; Behold, I will feed them with wormwood, and make them drink the water of gall: for from the prophets of Jerusalem is profaneness gone forth into all the land.
16 Thus saith the Lord of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the Lord.
17 They say still unto them that despise me, The Lord hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.
18 For who hath stood in the counsel of the Lord, and hath perceived and heard his word? who hath marked his word, and heard it?
19 Behold, A whirlwind of the Lord is gone forth in fury, even a grievous whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head of the wicked.
20 The anger of the Lord shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it perfectly.
Jerm 23: 23 Am I a God at hand, saith the Lord, and not a God afar off?
24 Can any ahide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord.
28 The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the Lord.
29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the Lord; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?
30 Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the Lord, that steal my words every one from his neighbour.
31 Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the Lord, that use their tongues, and say, He saith.
32 Behold, I am against them that prophesy false
adreams, saith the Lord, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the Lord.
33 ¶ And when this people, or the prophet, or a priest, shall ask thee, saying, What is the burden of the Lord? thou shalt then say unto them, What burden? I will even forsake you, saith the Lord.
34 And as for the prophet, and the priest, and the people, that shall say, The burden of the Lord, I will even punish that man and his house.
35 Thus shall ye say every one to his neighbour, and every one to his brother, What hath the Lord answered? and, What hath the Lord spoken?
36 And the burden of the Lord shall ye mention no more: for every man’s word shall be his burden; for ye have perverted the words of the living God, of the Lord of hosts our God.
37 Thus shalt thou say to the prophet, What hath the Lord answered thee? and, What hath the Lord spoken?
38 But since ye say, The burden of the Lord; therefore thus saith the Lord; Because ye say this word, The burden of the Lord, and I have sent unto you, saying, Ye shall not say, The burden of the Lord;
21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Matt. 24: 26
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
JS-M 1: 22 For in those days there shall also arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch, that, if possible, they shall deceive the very elect, who are the elect according to the covenant.
23 Behold, I speak these things unto you for the elect’s sake; and you also shall hear of wars, and rumors of wars; see that ye be not troubled, for all I have told you must come to pass; but the end is not yet.
24 Behold, I have told you before;
25 Wherefore, if they shall say unto you: Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: Behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not;
18 For the Lord is our defence; and the Holy One of Israel is our king.
God manifested Himself to me independent of any LDS influence. I am only doing the things He has invited me to do personally. He has invited me to learn how to partake of His fullness through the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Ghost. He has counseled me to use the opportunities that the Restored Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints offers under His directions to more fully partake of His fullness through the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Ghost. He empowers me to enter into His presence and partake of His powers more fully through correctly exercising the Melchizedek Priesthood, which was bestowed upon me by another holder of that same priesthood. He has counseled me not to put my trust in the LDS Church leaders, the scriptures, OR IN MYSELF (of our own merits), BUT IN HIM ONLY—AS I NEED HIS GUIDANCE FOR PROGRESSIVE KNOWLEDGE AND UNDERSTANDING OF HIS QUALITIES TO BECOME LIKE HIM. That does not mean that the LDS Church or scripture or myself are false or invaluable, IT MEANS THAT GOD IS RIGHT AND ABOVE ALL MEN AND ALL TOOLS. The Church, scriptures, and my personal decisions have become a very crucial part of my life, but I RESPOND TO YOU WITH THE SAME RESPONSE BY WHICH I RESPOND TO THEM. I only use things to help me to learn how to partake of God’s fullness through the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Ghost—cleaving unto the things which He endorses to me personally in the manner in which He prescribes me to use them.
So I ask you again “[w]hether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God” (Acts 4:19)?
YOU APPROACH ME WITH SECULAR KNOWLEDGE AND PRIVATE INTERPRETATION OF SCRIPTURES.
YOU CLAIM AND SHARE NO REVELATION AND POWER OF GOD.
YOU EMPOWER NO ONE TO PARTAKE OF GOD’S PURPOSES BUT ONLY SEEK TO CONFOUND OTHERS WITH YOUR PRIVATE INTERPRETATION, WHICH IS DEVOID OF THE POWER AND REVELATIONS OF GOD.
“Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost” (2 Peter 1:20-21).
YOUR CHOICE TO FILTER SCRIPTURE THROUGH YOUR OWN INTERPRETATION MAKES YOUR USAGE OF THEM INVALID.
You use scripture and secular resources to ACCUSE, ATTACK, AND BLASPHEME people and the revelations that God gives them.
GOD INVITES OTHERS TO PARTAKE OF HIS FULLNESS THROUGH THE ATONEMENT OF JESUS CHRIST AND THE POWER OF THE HOLY GHOST.
YOU DO NOT.
YOU ARE IN OPPOSITION TO GOD BECAUSE YOU CONTINUE TO VALUE SECULAR RESOURCES AND YOUR PRIVATE INTERPRETATION OF SCRIPTURE ABOVE GOD’S REVELATIONS, THE PURPOSE OF HIS SON’S SACRIFICE, AND THE USE OF HIS POWER TO ACCOMPLISH HIS WORK.
YOU ARE IN OPPOSITION TO GOD BECAUSE YOU ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO VALUE YOUR PRIVATE INTERPRETATION AND MAN’S SECULAR RESOURCES ABOVE THE REVELATIONS HE HAS GIVEN THEM.
PLACING VALUE AND ENCOURAGING OTHERS TO PLACE VALUE IN SECULAR RESOURCES AND YOUR PRIVATE INTERPRETATION IS THE SAME AS IDOLATRY AND IS ABOMINABLE TO GOD BECAUSE IT CANNOT ACCOMPLISH HIS PURPOSES.
YOUR ACCUSATIONS AGAINST THE LDS CHURCH ARE ANSWERED UPON YOUR OWN HEAD BECAUSE YOU ARE THE FALSE MESSANGER WHO OPERATES UNDER HIS OWN STRENGTH, INTERPRETATION, AND FULFILLS THE PURPOSES OF THE DEVIL BY PLACING THE CREATION ABOVE THE CREATOR.
YOU MAY USE SCRIPTURES IN YOUR TACTICS, BUT YOU WORK AGAINST THE REVELATIONS AND MANIFESTATIONS THAT GOD IS TRYING TO GIVE HIS CHILDREN THROUGH THE ATONEMENT OF CHRIST AND THE POWER OF THE HOLY GHOST, BECAUSE YOU LOVE AND ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO LOVE RECORDED INFORMATION ABOVE GROWING INTO THE LIKENESS OF GOD THROUGH COMING TO KNOW HIM.
YOU MAY CLAIM NOT TO ATTACK, BUT WHEN YOU PROPOSE THAT OTHERS RELY UPON SECULAR INFORMATION AND YOUR PRIVATE INTERPRETATION ABOVE THE REVELATIONS AND MANIFESTATIONS OF GOD, YOU ATTACK THEIR CHANCES OF OBTAINING ETERNAL LIFE—WHICH IS TO KNOW GOD, NOT TO FOLLOW YOUR PRIVATE INTERPRETATION (John 17:3).
YOU MAY CLAIM NOT TO ATTACK ME, BUT WHEN YOU OPPOSE THE WORK OF GOD IN MY LIFE AND MAKE FALSE ACCUSATIONS AGAINST ME AND THE TOOLS AND ORGANIZATIONS GOD IS MANIFESTING HIMSELF UNTO ME THROUGH, THEN YOU ARE ATTACKING ME AND SERVING SATAN.
I LOVE YOU AS A RESULT OF COMING TO TASTE OF GOD’S GOODNESS MORE FULLY, AND SEEK NOT TO DISCOURAGE YOU FROM COMING UNTO GOD AND LEARNING TO OBTAIN HIS FULLNESS THROUGH THE ATONEMENT OF JESUS CHRIST AND BY THE POWER OF THE HOLY GHOST.
I ONLY DISCOURAGE YOU FROM RELYING UPON SECULAR RESOURCES AND PRIVATE INTERPRETATION ABOVE THE REVELATIONS AND MANIFESTATIONS OF GOD UNTO ETERNAL LIFE.
IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THE LDS CHURCH IS OF GOD THEN EARNESTLY SEEK FROM GOD TO MANIFEST AND REVEAL UNTO YOU WHAT IS OF HIM AND LEAVE THE LDS ALONE. PLEASE STOP ATTACKING THAT WHICH YOUR CURRENT REASONINGS DO NOT AGREE WITH, AND LIVE ONLY BY RELYING UPON THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION AND ETERNAL LIFE.
“And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God” (Acts 5:38-39)
WHY WAIST YOUR TIME FIGHTING THAT WHICH YOUR REASONING HAS CONVINCED YOU IS ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, WHEN YOU CAN BETTER SPEND YOUR TIME COMING TO KNOW GOD AND BECOMING ONE WITH HIM THROUGH THE ATONEMENT OF JESUS CHRIST AND THE POWER OF THE HOLY GHOST?
WHEN YOUR TIME IS UP AND YOU HAVE FOUND THAT YOU HAVE SWANDERED YOUR TIME IN THIS USELESS WAR OF WORDS, WILL YOU CLAIM THAT THE LDS CHURCH WAISTED THE TIME IN WHICH YOU SHOULD HAVE SPENT BECOMING ONE WITH GOD AND GAINING ETERNAL LIFE?
NO ONE ELSE CAN USE YOUR TIME TO “WORK OUT YOUR OWN SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING” (Philippians 2:12) BEFORE GOD BUT YOU.
DON’T ALLOW SATAN TO WAIST YOUR TIME BY CONTENDING WITH OTHERS.
GOD DOES NOT NEED YOU TO FIGHT HIS BATTLES, HE WANTS TO SANCTIFY YOU AND HELP YOU INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE THROUGH HIS SON AND SPIRIT.
Truth Secular, Denied
Truth Scriptural, Denied
I Made no Private "INTERPRETATION"
"YOUR CHOICE TO FILTER SCRIPTURE THROUGH YOUR OWN INTERPRETATION MAKES YOUR USAGE OF THEM INVALID. "
No filters !!!!!!!!!
Do not Gnash your Teeth, Quit your Whining and Wailing, I told you many times DO NOT TAKE IT PERSONAL
If somebody uses Secular "comments or sources"
You cannot Believe or Respond'
If somebody use the Scriptures only you Rail and Respond with flames,
No filters, no "Private" "INTERPRETATIONS"
"YOU ARE IN OPPOSITION TO GOD BECAUSE YOU CONTINUE TO VALUE SECULAR RESOURCES AND YOUR PRIVATE INTERPRETATION OF SCRIPTURE ABOVE GOD’S REVELATIONS"
So if someone will only Post Scripture with no comments you accuse!
So if someone uses "secular" sources you Accuse!
JAMES 5;
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Acts 8: 9, 11
9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some GREAT ONE!!!!!!
• • •
11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.
JAMES5: 12
12 BUT ABOVE ALL THINGS, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.
MASON WITCHCRAFT SWEARING OATHS
PREISTCRAFT-POLYGAMY-MAGICK
FREEMASONRY-MORMON ZION- FALLEN VIEW
TRUTH-
TRUST-
COURAGE-
HOLINESS-
RIGHTEOUSNESS-
REPENTANCE-
What and why would YOU receive the Following
"He has counseled me not to put my trust in the LDS Church leaders, the scriptures, OR IN MYSELF"
You sound like you are becoming the NEW Joseph Smith
Good Luck,
If God is working with you In or out of LDSs I cannot take that away
For sure God is not done with you, but if I thought that LDSism was True, I would try to trust the leaders and the scriptures.
God may no be done you, I do not know that he is Done with Me.
Be careful That you do not become some GREAT ONE
Acts 8: 9, 11
9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some GREAT ONE!!!!!!
"but I RESPOND TO YOU WITH THE SAME RESPONSE BY WHICH I RESPOND TO THEM."
Anonymous
For a guy who quotes so much your memory is failing or you barely read what others are saying:
"JAMES5: 12
12 BUT ABOVE ALL THINGS, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation."
If you refer back to Christ declaring this in Matthew you will note that he mentions that GOD commanded such OATHS in HIS LAW given to Moses. So if you have some problem with oaths take it up with God. Tell God that he was being wicked (according to you) and that he is a secret Mason.
But there was a certain man, called Anonymous, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of the internet, giving out that himself was some GREAT ONE!!!!!! Acts 8: 9, 11
O foolish Anonymous, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
You keep quoting Scriptures that don't relate to anything we are talking about and ignore the ones answered that do.
I'm still waiting for you to tell us that things go better with Coca-Cola. Though you'd better not say that because some masons may have shares in it and that would promote more oaths.
Anonymous,
Haha, you sly one. Seems Doug has caught you in scripture manipulation. I needed not even go that far to know that you do not represent God and His truth. But since we are on the subject, and I don't believe you really see how Satan is deceiving you, I will show you what he is doing to you by how you treat my words. The scriptures are vast and many people have differing opinions of them, but my words with you are short, comparatively speaking, and very plain.
You misquoted me by isolating statements that I made. Then followed it with accusing remarks that you knew were not true to make yourself seem right. I guess I am not supposed to take that personal or feel attacked in any way. Please excuse my confusion of your deceptive tactics. But manipulating someone else’s words for your personal gain and benefit is the same as lying, cheating, and in this instance is the same as priestcraft (since your choice to get gain is with scriptural debates). God’s truth is not up for debate. It is manifest in His power, which comes through His Son and Holy Spirit, which you do not even claim or pretend to act by. All your efforts are based upon your own strength and are not delivered by the power of God unto the salvation of His children.
Satan is using you to try to destroy the faith of God’s children in the revelations and manifestation He gives them. For example you isolated part of this statement:
"He has counseled me not to put my trust in the LDS Church leaders, the scriptures, OR IN MYSELF"
And followed it by making this accusation and attack on my character and motives:
“You sound like you are becoming the NEW Joseph Smith
Good Luck… but if I thought that LDSism was True, I would try to trust the leaders and the scriptures.”
What I really said was:
“He has counseled me not to put my trust in the LDS Church leaders, the scriptures, OR IN MYSELF (of our own merits), BUT IN HIM ONLY—AS I NEED HIS GUIDANCE FOR PROGRESSIVE KNOWLEDGE AND UNDERSTANDING OF HIS QUALITIES TO BECOME LIKE HIM. That does not mean that the LDS Church or scripture or myself are false or invaluable, IT MEANS THAT GOD IS RIGHT AND ABOVE ALL MEN AND ALL TOOLS. The Church, scriptures, and my personal decisions have become a very crucial part of my life, but I RESPOND TO YOU WITH THE SAME RESPONSE BY WHICH I RESPOND TO THEM.”
Shall the axe boast itself against him that heweth therewith? or shall the saw magnify itself against him that shaketh it? as if the rod should shake itself against them that lift it up, or as if the staff should lift up itself, as if it were no wood. (Isaiah 10:15)
If these things are so, then why should I value “LDS Church leaders, the scriptures, OR IN MYSELF (of our own merits),” instead of putting my all in “HIM [GOD] ONLY—AS I NEED HIS GUIDANCE FOR PROGRESSIVE KNOWLEDGE AND UNDERSTANDING OF HIS QUALITIES TO BECOME LIKE HIM”?
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Again I said, “That does not mean that the LDS Church or scripture or myself are false or invaluable, IT MEANS THAT GOD IS RIGHT AND ABOVE ALL MEN AND ALL TOOLS. The Church, scriptures, and my personal decisions have become a very crucial part of my life, but I RESPOND TO YOU WITH THE SAME RESPONSE BY WHICH I RESPOND TO THEM.”
Sounds like you are becoming the new Zeezrom, Good Luck!
Why would you turn my words into a lie if Satan was not taking advantage of you?
You also said:
"YOUR CHOICE TO FILTER SCRIPTURE THROUGH YOUR OWN INTERPRETATION MAKES YOUR USAGE OF THEM INVALID. "
“No filters !!!!!!!!!
“Do not Gnash your Teeth, Quit your Whining and Wailing, I told you many times DO NOT TAKE IT PERSONAL
“If somebody uses Secular "comments or sources"
“You cannot Believe or Respond'
“If somebody use the Scriptures only you Rail and Respond with flames,
“No filters, no "Private" "INTERPRETATIONS"
"YOU ARE IN OPPOSITION TO GOD BECAUSE YOU CONTINUE TO VALUE SECULAR RESOURCES AND YOUR PRIVATE INTERPRETATION OF SCRIPTURE ABOVE GOD’S REVELATIONS"
“So if someone will only Post Scripture with no comments you accuse!
“So if someone uses "secular" sources you Accuse!”
IF YOU ARE NOT FILTERING THE SCRIPTURES, THEN CLAIM THE REVELATIONS AND MANIFESTATIONS THAT GOD IS GIVING YOU TO MAKE THE CLAIMS THAT YOU ARE MAKING. IS GOD MANIFESTING THESE THINGS TO YOU OR ARE THESE THE CONCLUSIONS THAT YOU HAVE COME TO BASED UPON YOUR RESEARCH AND REASONING.
I am not gnashing my teeth, whining, or wailing. I have only sought to invite you to:
“have the courage to rely wholly upon the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Ghost unto the fullness of God while learning to find joy”
And why should I not take it personal when one of my fellow beings is overcome by the deceptions of Lucifer and attempts to thwart my efforts to live by what God is revealing to me? To make my accuser feel better in their attempts to destroy me and my efforts to gain eternal life? I’m sorry that I make you feel guilty for opposing the power of God and His Christ in my life. I guess it would be easier for you if I was just a secular Mormon and you were just attacking information that I was loyal to.
But you are attacking my God, His Christ, and the Holy Spirit as they are preparing me to become one with them and receive of their fullness. They are changing me, and it brakes my heart to see you so overrun with darkness. In your pursuit of truth you cannot even see how much Satan is LEADING YOU WITH THE FLAXEN CORD as you continue to put your trust in secular sources and the strength of your own intellect instead of receiving your instruction from He who alone has the power to save. The more you put your strength in the arm of flesh the farther you get from learning to receive of God’s fullness through Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. Satan is winning in your life and causing the Savior’s blood that was shed for you to be spilt in vain. I suppose you don’t want me to take that serious either? Why not? Do you NOT want me to desire the success of Jesus Christ and His Beloved Father in your life?
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Again, if you are receiving revelations and manifestations from God to prompt your angle on this post, then own up to it. Do not be ashamed of what God is teaching you. If you are not receiving such revelations and manifestations and you would feel uncomfortable to make such claims, recognize that you operate upon your own strength and Satan is causing you to lie by saying:
“No filters !!!!!!!!!
“No filters, no "Private" "INTERPRETATIONS"
I know that God is not finished with you yet. I know that you are His beloved child. I know that you seek truth and peace in your life. This is all the more reason to recognize that Satan prowls around you like a lion seeking to devour you. It is so dangerous to rely upon secular means and personal reasoning above the power, revelations, and manifestations of God. Written words and secular resources can become useful in personal study and communication with others only as they are expounded to us by God. If the REAL power of God through Christ’s Atonement and Holy Ghost are not present and becoming progressively dominant in our lives, then we are on dangerous ground.
Please accept my invitation to put your trust in God and His power to become your new source of guidance instead of secular resources and personal reasoning. Let Him lead you to wherever it may be, and follow Him. Learn to partake of His power and enter into His presence so that you can become one with Him and help others of His children do the same. I only desire this for you and your posterity. I am not your enemy.
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Meta communication: Talking and communicating about How we communicate.
It seems that when issues cannot be defended or responded to in reasonable way that communicating has broken down to personal attacks or Talking about how we communicate.
I am not to the Level of such an ONE as who claims to Walk and Talk with "god, the son or holy ghost many hours"
But I think that It is reasonable at/in 'MY" fallen level to try to verify with Science, Research, Scriptures, History, Measures, Weights all Filtered thru the Light of Christ, Prayer and the promptings of the Holy Ghost.
Knowing the TRUTH and the "truth" can set us free.
Being human and not Perfect with my Listening, Talking, Writing and other communicating skills,
I am but a feeble Human in the world and hopefully not of the World. I beg at the Mercy seat of Jesus to God, for Forgiveness, Guidance, Peace and Light.
I am not "A"light and know and admit that I am in a fallen state subject to error,
But I will be judged of God and no Man.
Now to those who sit " Sit as Saviors on Mount ZION
who are Mingling with "gods enthroned in the yonder heavens"
I have tried to be reasonable thru Scriptures, Science, History, Etc................................
I Have no Private Revelation for You, REPEAT, I Have no Private Revelation for You,
If GOD would speak to Me for you and command me to share some Private Revelation for you I would Share it in Private. I am no prophet and I do not claim to Walk and Talk with a "god'.
Jesus was attacked and was the living embodiment of TRUTH, as a Metaphor the TRUTH was crucified between a Thief and a Robber.
Jesus was attacked for telling the TRUTH
People Hate the Truth, will not Tolerate the Truth, will not answer the Truth, will not deal with the Truth,will not tolerate the Truth, will not reason with TRUTH.
Jesus was a bit too common for Those Learned Ones of his day, He was attacked for the TRUTH he told.
The Learned of his day had no ears for the TRUTH the were all too Learned to hear or learn the TRUTH.
By their Pride the killed the TRUTH, blinded by "their" traditions, much learning and the pride of their Traditions.
The attack on TRUTH was personal, They killed Jesus for Being the Truth.
LUKE 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.
53 And as he said these things unto them, the scribes and the Pharisees began to urge him vehemently, and to provoke him to speak of many things:
54 Laying wait for him, and seeking to catch something out of his mouth, that they might accuse him.
Luke 11: 9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
John 8: 21, 37, 40, 50
21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your asins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
37 I know that ye are Abraham’s seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
50 And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.
MASON WITCHCRAFT SWEARING OATHS
PREISTCRAFT-POLYGAMY-MAGICK
FREEMASONRY-MORMON ZION- FALLEN VIEW
V/S
TRUTH-
TRUST-
COURAGE-
HOLINESS-
RIGHTEOUSNESS-
REPENTANCE-
That is Not a Revelation But it is True!!!!!!!!
“Jesus was attacked and was the living embodiment of TRUTH, as a Metaphor the TRUTH was crucified between a Thief and a Robber.”
I have only invited you to exercise your faith in the TRUTH that all men must learn to receive of God’s fullness through the Atonement of JESUS CHRIST and the Holy Ghost to receive a fullness of joy. You continue to attack me and the living message that God has given me that I attempt to share with you. You seek to crucify me and that message, which is an embodiment of the ultimate purpose of God and the ultimate motive behind Christ’s sacrifice as though we are the same as thieves and robbers.
“Jesus was attacked for telling the TRUTH
People Hate the Truth, will not Tolerate the Truth, will not answer the Truth, will not deal with the Truth, will not tolerate the Truth, will not reason with TRUTH.”
You continue to attack me for telling you the TRUTH because you hate the TRUTH and will not Tolerate the Truth, will not answer the Truth, will not deal with the Truth, will not tolerate the Truth, will not reason with the TRUTH. God and His Christ are the TRUTH and you continue to prefer secular studies, self-centered accusations, and personal reason above accepting the invitation to come to Reason with Them and know Them and become one with Them.
“Jesus was a bit too common for Those Learned Ones of his day, He was attacked for the TRUTH he told.
The Learned of his day had no ears for the TRUTH the were all too Learned to hear or learn the TRUTH.”
Coming to know Jesus personally and allowing Him to prepare you to learn from the Father through the Holy Spirit to receive of a fullness is a bit too common for you AS YOU WOULD RATHER BASK IN YOUR SECULAR LEARNING INSTEAD. You continue to attack me for extending that Truth unto you, even though it is God who encourages me to reach out to you for Him. You have no ears for the TRUTH and are too wrapped up in Secular Learning and Personal Reasoning to hear or learn the TRUTH that eternal life is to know God and Jesus unto becoming one with Them (John 17).
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“By their Pride the killed the TRUTH, blinded by "their" traditions, much learning and the pride of their Traditions.
The attack on TRUTH was personal, They killed Jesus for Being the Truth.”
By your Pride, and the snares of the Adversary, you seek to kill the TRUTH within me and all the readers of this site, blinded by your traditions of building yourself up with the pride of secular learning and worldly debate tactics. YES, YOUR ATTACKS ON THE TRUTH AND ON PEOPLE ARE PERSONAL, EVEN THOUGH YOU CLAIM THEY ARE NOT BECAUSE YOU ARE SEEKING TO KILL THE PERSONAL CONTACT OTHERS HAVE COME TO OBTAIN WITH JESUS AND HIS TRUTH. SATAN IS KILLING THIS LIFE WITHIN YOU BECAUSE HE IS SUCCEEDING IN HAVING YOU SEEK LIFE IN SECULAR KNOWLEDGE RATHER THAN THROUGH KNOWING GOD.
By posting these comments, you have set yourself up to be judged with the same judgement.
You also accuse me of being actively involved with:
“MASON WITCHCRAFT SWEARING OATHS
PREISTCRAFT-POLYGAMY-MAGICK
FREEMASONRY-MORMON ZION- FALLEN VIEW”
If my invitation to you to: “have the courage to rely wholly upon the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Ghost unto the fullness of God while learning to find joy” is mason, witchcraft, swearing oaths, priestcraft, polygamy, magick, freemasonry, mormon zion, and fallen view, THEN YOU SHOULD CURSE GOD AND DIE BECAUSE YOU LAY ALL THESE ACCUSATIONS AT HIS FEET.
My invitation to you to: “have the courage to rely wholly upon the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Ghost unto the fullness of God while learning to find joy” IS NOT FOR SELF GAIN, SO HOW AM I INVOLVED IN PRIESTCRAFT?
You have been caught on several occasions manipulating truth, misquoting, isolating statement, and flat out lying TO GET GAIN IN RELIGIOUS DEBATES. YOU ARE THE PRIESTCRAFT PRACTICIONER. It is so ironic how the accusers are often times guilty of that which they so viciously accuse others of.
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TRUTH-
The truth is that you oppose the idea of putting you faith in God so that you can learn how to receive His fullness through the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Ghost.
You put your
TRUST-
In the arm of flesh, relying instead upon secular learning and personal reasoning because you do not have the
COURAGE-
To rely upon God and His
HOLINESS-
By allowing Jesus Christ to be your
RIGHTEOUSNESS-
And allowing the Holy Ghost to conform you into the image of God through true
REPENTANCE-
You claim a successful system
“That is Not a Revelation But it is True!!!!!!!!”
There is not truth above God. You can only come to know Him and be conformed into His image through revelation. If you preach some other truth than that then Christ blood was spilt in vain. I guess you plan to earn your way into heaven by studying man’s records and reaching your own conclusions. By this choice, you crucify the Son of God afresh!!!
I invite you again to “have the courage to rely wholly upon the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Ghost unto the fullness of God while learning to find joy.”
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TRUTH-
TRUST-
COURAGE-
HOLINESS-
RIGHTEOUSNESS-
REPENTANCE-(repeat)
Above is how I try to Approach God- trample on it if you Like but That is My Approach- you asked I told!!
Being that you Talk About your Revelations
Receive this revelation- For ME
Is Freemasonry Witchcraft and the MASON Temple of TUBAL CAIN/LUCIFER ?
and was Joseph Smith a Master Mason?
If you are unable to Receive This Revelation Please quit Rambling on about "Having a relationship with Jesus", as instructed by Jesus I Pray to the Father Thru Him but not to Him.
If you cannot Answer any questions about the Facts you are Lost, and are Hiding like a T.V. evangelist behind your phrases, church and Jesus.
Incase you did not notice you fall into the common cult response of Making a Personal Attack and not answering any real questions,
You want to drag your Facts out of your subjective mind and Revelations. No science, No scriptures
No history, Nothing Secular, NOTHING!!!!!!
You will never see the Light unless you deal with the Truth Objectively and relearn the Simple question and Answer method. Forbid you Know Science!!!!
So please try to quit hiding in the Darkness, and making Personal Attacks lets Try one Question, One Answer. Repeat Please take up as much space for your Answers,Here is My question
Is Freemasonry Witchcraft and the of Temple of TUBAL CAIN/LUCIFER ?
and was Joseph Smith a Master Mason?
Praise to the Man, Your Mormon King in Mormon ZIon-anointed Prophet and Seer Revelator who Received ALL the Keys of ALL dispensations,
The Endowment-BOM-PGP-D&C POLYGAMY
"Not a simple Character in Truth"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tubal-cain
It is not clear why he has a double-barrelled name. Gordon Wenham suggests that the name "Cain" means "smith" (which would anticipate the remarks about his metal-working skill)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cain
A metalsmith, often shortened to smith, is a person involved in making metal objects. In contemporary use a metalsmith is a person who uses metal as a material, uses traditional metalsmithing techniques (though not necessarily the material), whose work thematically relates to the practice or history of the practice, or who engages in any number metal related activities.
In pre-industrialized times, smiths held high or special social standing since they supplied the metal tools needed for farming (especially the plough) and warfare. This was especially true in some West African cultures.
a blacksmith works with iron and steel; (this is what is usually meant when referring just to "Smith")
Cain, on the other hand, is thought to be cognate to the mid-1st millennium BC South Arabian word qyn, meaning "metal smith".[27] This theory would make the names merely descriptions of the roles they take in the story—Abel working with livestock, and Cain with agriculture—and would parallel the names Adam ("man") and Eve ("life", Chavah in Hebrew).[28]
Wanderer
As Abel's murderer, Cain was commanded to wander the earth in punishment, a tradition arose that this punishment was to be forever, in a similar manner to the (much later) legends of the Flying Dutchman or the Wandering Jew. According to some Islamic sources, such as al-Tabari, Ibn Kathir and al-Tha'labi, he migrated to Yemen.
Fernand-Anne Piestre Cormon's painting titled "Cain flying before Jehovah's Curse", c. 1880, Musée d'Orsay, Paris.
Though variations on these traditions were strong in medieval times, with several claims of sightings being reported, they have generally gone out of favour. Nevertheless, the Wandering Cain theme has appeared in Mormon folklore (but not scripture)—a second-hand account relates that an early Mormon leader, David W. Patten, encountered a very tall, hairy, dark-skinned man in Tennessee who said that he was Cain. The account states that Cain had earnestly sought death but was denied it, and that his mission was to destroy the souls of men.[56][57] The recollection of Patten's story is quoted in Spencer W. Kimball's The Miracle of Forgiveness, a popular book within The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.[58] This widespread Mormon belief is further emphasized by an account from Salt Lake City in 1963 which stated that "One superstition is based on the old Mormon belief that Cain is a black man who wanders the earth begging people to kill him and take his curse upon themselves (M, 24, SLC, 1963)."[59]
Mormon
While the majority, if not all, of Cain's descendants would have been killed in the great flood, according to Mormons from the late 19th to mid 20th century, Cain's bloodline was preserved on the ark through Egyptus, wife of Ham (son of Noah). The Book of Abraham, accepted by Mormons as part of their canon, is the source of the story of this Egyptus who preserves "the curse.... as pertaining to the Priesthood" by surviving the flood as Ham's wife. One must note, however, that in this canonized source no connection is made between her and Cain (her lineage is not given), nor is anything mentioned concerning her skin color. Thus, though Mormons combined the widespread belief that Cain's curse was a blackness of skin with another racist idea common in Europe and America (that the curse of Ham for seeing his father's nakedness was black skin), the idea that Ham's wife preserved a curse of black skin inherited from Cain that was passed on is not canonized doctrine.[6]
Mormon
While the majority, if not all, of Cain's descendants would have been killed in the great flood, according to Mormons from the late 19th to mid 20th century, Cain's bloodline was preserved on the ark through Egyptus, wife of Ham (son of Noah). The Book of Abraham, accepted by Mormons as part of their canon, is the source of the story of this Egyptus who preserves "the curse.... as pertaining to the Priesthood" by surviving the flood as Ham's wife. One must note, however, that in this canonized source no connection is made between her and Cain (her lineage is not given), nor is anything mentioned concerning her skin color. Thus, though Mormons combined the widespread belief that Cain's curse was a blackness of skin with another racist idea common in Europe and America (that the curse of Ham for seeing his father's nakedness was black skin), the idea that Ham's wife preserved a curse of black skin inherited from Cain that was passed on is not canonized doctrine.[6]An excerpt from Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, p.127-128
"On the sad character Cain, an interesting story comes to us from Lycurgus A. Wilson's book on the life of David W. Patten. From the book I quote an extract from a letter by Abraham O. Smoot giving his recollection of David Patten's account of meeting "a very remarkable person who had represented himself as being Cain."As I was riding along the road on my mule I suddenly noticed a very strange personage walking beside me…. His head was about even with my shoulders as I sat in my saddle. He wore no clothing, but was covered with hair. His skin was very dark. I asked him where he dwelt and he replied that he had no home, that he was a wanderer in the earth and traveled to and fro. He said he was a very miserable creature, that he had earnestly sought death during his sojourn upon the earth, but that he could not die, and his mission was to destroy the souls of men. About the time he expressed himself thus, I rebuked him in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by virtue of the Holy Priesthood, and commanded him to go hence, and he immediately departed out of my sight.”
Tubal-Cain: Who he was, and what that says about the nature of Freemasonry given it is the secret password of a Master Mason. It is evident that in a general way, this doctrine of Freemasonry is not only a heresy, nor even the totality of all heresies, which find in it a haven; it is a fact that Masonry goes beyond the limits of what constitutes what is generally ascribed to the word 'heresy,' for it allows full play to the commission of outrageous perversion. Freemasonry is indeed the abyss of all errors, the well of perdition.Freemasonry provides a point of entry into this very complex story. As it had been in Vermont, Masonic fraternity was a dominant feature of the cultural landscape in Joseph Smith's Ontario County. . . . The dense network of lodges and chapters helps explain the Masonic symbolism that runs through the story of the discovery of the Golden Plates. Most obviously, the story of their discovery in a stone vault on a hilltop echoed the Enoch myth of Royal Arch Freemasonry, in which the prophet Enoch, instructed by a vision, preserved the Masonic mysteries by carving them on a golden plate that he placed in an arched stone vault marked with pillars, to be rediscovered by Solomon. In the years to come the prophet Enoch would play a central role in Smith's emerging cosmology. Smith's stories of his discoveries got more elaborate with time, and in June 1829 he promised Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer and Martin Harris that they would see not only the plates but other marvelous artifacts: the Urim and Thummim attached to a priestly breastplate, the 'sword of Laban,' and 'miraculous directors.' Oliver Cowdery and Lucy Mack Smith later described three or four small pillars holding up the plates. All of these artifacts had Masonic analogues.
. . . Smith's sources for these Masonic symbols were close at hand. Most obviously, Oliver Cowdery would have been a source, given that his father and brother were Royal Arch initiates; one Palmyra resident remembered Oliver Cowdery as 'no church member and a Mason.' . . . A comment by Lucy Mack Smith in her manuscript written in the 1840s, protesting that the family did not abandon all household labor to try 'to win the faculty of Abrac, drawing magic circles, or sooth-saying,' suggests a familiarity with Masonic manuals: the 'faculty of Abrac' was among the supposed Masonic mysteries (Refiner's Fire, Cambridge University Press, 1994, pp. 157-158).
Could you Please Respond with a REVELATION on Freemasonry TUBAL CAIN and Joseph SMITH I am WAITING - I want to Know How Tubal Cain can Bring Me CLOSER and CLOSER to WHO
PLEASE GIVE ME THAT REVELATION
Sorry for those secular sources
WAITING FOR that INSPIRED REVELATION OF SMITH and CAIN
Anonymous,
You still approach me as though a system “That is Not a Revelation But it is True!!!!!!!!” is even possible and is the way that God wants us to operate. You amaze me. It is life eternal to know the only true God and Jesus Christ in a manner to become one with them (John 17). You value secular debate skills above accomplishing the purpose of the sacrifice that Christ made in your behalf, and you openly invite me to do the same.
Since you insist, I will answer your secular charges, but will do it in the manner that I feel impressed to from God. I can only receive revelation for myself, as I do not have stewardship over you. But maybe you can benefit from the revelations of others since you do not obtain them for yourself. But I would rather you obtain them for yourself. I am not God, nor it is life eternal for you to know me or learn to wholly rely upon me. God, Christ, and the Holy Ghost are the ones who sanctify you and teach you how to receive of their fullness. I encourage you to always come unto Them above me, anyone, or anything else.
I know part of your secular debate tactics is to lure me into contention based upon which PERSON can provide the most impressive argument. Again, GOD’S TRUTH IS NOT SOMETHING THAT IS EVEN DEBATABLE NOR DOES IT DEPEND ON THE ORATORY SKILLS OF MAN TO MAKE IT VIABLE.
You are so lost and continue to place human reasoning and secular knowledge above God. That is idolatry, and again you invite me to follow your idolatrous ways instead of encouraging me in a manner to partake of God’s fullness through the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit.
You requested that I answer this statement:
“Being that you Talk About your Revelations
Receive this revelation- For ME
Is Freemasonry Witchcraft and the MASON Temple of TUBAL CAIN/LUCIFER ?
and was Joseph Smith a Master Mason?”
God has revealed to me that Joseph Smith’s involvement with Masonry has no bearing whatsoever on if I am able to accept His invitation to learn to receive of His fullness through the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit. God has also reminded me that the teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith have never invited me to join a Masonic Lodge, participate in witchcraft, or to submit myself to Cain, Tubal Cain, or Lucifer.
God has reminded me that Joseph Smith did extend this invitation to me: “It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God. I want you all to know Him and to be familiar with Him” (HC 6:305). God is pleased with this invitation of the Prophet Joseph Smith.
God has also reminded me that YOU have never invited me to know for a certainty His character, nor have you encouraged me to become familiar with Him. In fact, God has reminded me of what you have invited me to do:
God reminded me that YOU HAVE BEEN THE ONE who has invited me to study Freemasonry, Witchcraft, Tubal Cain, and Lucifer in order to appease your fetish with destroying my trust in God’s revelations to me and the LDS Church.
God pointed out to me that since you have not at least even tried to counter it with encouraging me to know for a certainty His character or becoming familiar with Him, you have invited me to place the study of such things above God and my relationship with Him. As well, you have invited me to place a scrutinizing study of Joseph Smith above God and His power to conform me into His image through Christ’s blood and the Holy Ghost.
IN ESSENCE, YOU HAVE INVITED ME TO WORSHIP FREEMASONRY, WITCHCRAFT, TUBAL CAIN, LUCIFER, AND JOSEPH SMITH INSTEAD OF GOD AND CHRIST—THE VERY CHARGE YOU PLACE AGAINST ME AND THE LDS CHURCH. The more charges you continue to lay upon the heads of others continue to come back upon your own head as you continue to expose yourself and your ultimate goals instead of promoting God’s ultimate goal through Christ.
Why can you not see that Satan is taking advantage of you, making you out to be a fool, robbing you from using your time to gain eternal life, and bringing condemnation upon your head by successfully enticing you to place it upon the heads of others? I would rather not bring these things up but encourage each other in learning to obtain God’s fullness through the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. However, you continue to insist that I comment on them instead of edifying each other with our testimonies of God’s power and ability to conform His children into His image through Christ and the Holy Ghost.
You next requested that I answer:
“If you are unable to Receive This Revelation Please quit Rambling on about "Having a relationship with Jesus", as instructed by Jesus I Pray to the Father Thru Him but not to Him.”
According to your logic when Jesus prayed to His Father and said that it was life eternal to know God AND JESUS (John 17:3), He did not want us to have a relationship with Him and was rambling on about nonsense.
According to your logic when Jesus said “I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you” (John 14:18), He did not want us to have a relationship with Him and was rambling on about nonsense.
Jesus followed that teaching by saying, “If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him”(John 14:23).
How can Jesus come to me in a manner in which I can know Him, have Him and the Father make Their home with me, and gain eternal life if we never converse with one another or have a relationship?
You claim to have no revelations in your own life. If you are not allowing God to make Himself known unto you and you are not getting to know Jesus, shouldn’t you begin to question your methods of personal religious belief?
Why do you condemn me for knowing Jesus and conversing with Him too? Is that a sin? AND YOU SAY THE LDS ARE NOT CHRISTIAN! Again you condemn yourself with your own accusations.
Next you said:
“Incase you did not notice you fall into the common cult response of Making a Personal Attack and not answering any real questions,
You want to drag your Facts out of your subjective mind and Revelations. No science, No scriptures
No history, Nothing Secular, NOTHING!!!!!!”
In case YOU did not notice, YOU fall into the common cult response of Making a Personal Attack and not answering any real questions,
You want to drag your Facts out of your subjective mind WITHOUT Revelation. ONLY science, ONLY isolated scripture quotes, ONLY history, ONLY Secular. Which compared to God and everything He purposed to accomplish through Creation and the Atonement of Jesus Christ is NOTHING!!!
Although I have always used scripture to back up the things my God and Savior reveal to me through the Holy Ghost, I will give you another to reassure you and to explain my feelings about Jesus:
8 Yea doubtless, and I COUNT ALL THINGS BUT LOSS FOR THE EXCELLENCY OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF CHRIST JESUS MY LORD: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law [or secular means], but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10 THAT I MAY KNOW HIM, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. (Philippians 3:8-12)
GOD’S PURPOSE IS TO SUCCESSFULLY HAVE US LEARN TO OBTAIN HIS FULLNESS THROUGH THE ATONEMENT OF JESUS CHRIST AND THE POWER OF THE HOLY GHOST. That is all that is important to me, all I have purposed to you, and the only thing that is lasting.
I have never invited you to obsess over Joseph Smith, the LDS Church, Freemasonry, Witchcraft, Tubal Cain, or Lucifer. YOU HAVE INVITED ME TO.
Aside from maybe Joseph Smith and the LDS Church, you have promoted the study of Freemasonry, Witchcraft, Tubal Cain, and Lucifer more than anyone else on this site or anyone else I have ever met.
You continue to obsess over these things instead of using your time to successfully learn to obtain of God’s fullness through the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost.
Please believe that God wants to make Himself known unto you so that He can help you be conformed into His image through Christ’s Atonement and the power of the Holy Ghost.
Follow-up for your latest post.
Again, I can pray about it for myself and maybe the answers God gives me can benefit you too.
“Could you Please Respond with a REVELATION… WAITING FOR that INSPIRED REVELATION”
It pleases me if you truly seek revelation for your life. However, you would find so much more fulfillment in your life if you sought and obtained revelation from God. It is through earnest seeking that God seeks to make Himself known unto us so that we can become one with Him over time. Although it is nice to have God’s stamp of approval on information, and even have Him expound things for us, it is far more fulfilling and in sync with His purposes when we use questions and revelation to know God instead of using God to receive revelation to answer questions. Again it is life eternal to know God and Jesus so that we may be one with them (John 17), not to use God and Jesus as our tools to gain information and seek authority over one another.
I asked God how I can use information about Tubal Cain, Cain, and Joseph Smith to bring me closer to Him. He responded by telling me that if spending all my time obsessing over secular information about them was an enticement, then having that opposition in my life could provide me with a valuable opportunity to choose to spend my time becoming CLOSER and CLOSER to Him instead. Instead of following after my intellectual pursuits, which are an appetite of the flesh, I could sacrifice them on the alter and choose to exercise faith in the Atonement of Jesus Christ to allow me to draw closer to God through the Holy Spirit (revelation).
God told me that if obtaining secular information about the aforementioned individuals was not something that interfered with our relationship, then I could read up on them from time to time and He might use them to teach me if He saw fit. He said that if I was learning to use my life to come unto to Him and learn of His fullness through the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit, then He could better use my life experiences to help accomplish that purpose.
Whether I happened to study about scriptural characters, modern prophets, watch the news, attend college, go to work, or take care of my family responsibilities, He would use those things in which I experienced in order to manifest Himself unto me in a way in which I could come to understand His character, attributes, and perfections the fastest. He told me that there are many things that I can learn about the history of this earth that can be useful to me if my main priority was to continue to advance in my ability to learn God from God so that I could finish becoming one with God. I could see where those who chose to follow God succeeded in receiving the fullness of the Gospel blessing through correctly learning to apply the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Ghost. I could also see where those who chose not did not. I could learn many valuable lessons from the choices that His disciples and His enemies made if my first priority was to obtain His fullness in the manner He was teaching me to receive it.
I asked Him if your 4-post encyclopedia presentation was beneficial to me, and what He thought about it. He pretty much replied with the same answer I just gave. Although He did add that He wished that you would spend the efforts that you spend obsessing over such information to obsessing over Him. He is a jealous God. He is jealous because He does not want to see Satan succeed in wasting the time of His children when they could be learning to know Him and becoming one with Him instead. He told me that if you only posted one sentence of testimony that He is real and that through Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost you were learning to receive of His fullness, it would be far more valuable to the readers than countless posts of anything else. He told me how much He loved you and desired for you to receive a fullness of joy under His direction and by the sacrifice of His Only Begotten. I agreed.
He told me that if you would humble yourself before Him, He could manifest over time the extent of His perfect love and ultimate intentions for you. He could also prepare you to share His power and work. Through learning His love and intentions, you could share that love and encourage others to partake of His intentions for them because you knew about it first-hand. He said you would grow into a fullness of joy by learning to share the Gift of God as He does—through encouraging others to utilize the fullness of the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Ghost to obtain such. He said all of mankind could grow together with Him and one another, if they would choose to become united under the guidance of the Godhead. He said that this would not only bring His children joy, but bring Him, Jesus, and the hosts of heaven joy too. I believe Him and am learning to desire the same things through getting to know Him better each day. I know I do not communicate the best, and am sometimes way too blunt, but I want this for you too. I look forward to us being able to get past our differences by becoming healed through the power of God and His Christ. Sorry for anything I do that hinders that from happening.
Bruce R. McConkie was a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints when this devotional
address was given at Brigham Young University on 2 March 1982.
I shall speak of our relationship with the Lord and of the true fellowship all Saints should have with the Father. I shall set forth what we must believe relative to the Father and the Son in order to gain eternal life.I shall expound the doctrine of the Church relative to what our relationship should be to all members of the Godhead and do so in plainness and simplicity so that none need misunderstand or be led astray by other voices.I shall express the view of the Brethren, of the prophets and apostles of old, and of all those who understand the scriptures and are in tune with the Holy Spirit.These matters lie at the very foundation of revealed religion. In presenting them I am on my own ground and am at home with my subject. I shall not stoop to petty wranglings about semantics but shall stay with matters of substance. I shall simply go back to basics and set forth fundamental doctrines of the kingdom, knowing that everyone who is sound spiritually and who has the guidance of the Holy Spirit will believe my words and follow my counsel.
Please do not put too much stock in some of the current views and vagaries that are afloat, but rather, turn to the revealed word, get a sound understanding of the doctrines, and keep yourselves in the mainstream of the Church.
Now, it is no secret that many false and vain and foolish things are being taught in the sectarian world and even among us about our need to gain a special relationship with the Lord Jesus. I shall summarize the true doctrine in this field and invite erring teachers and beguiled students to repent and believe the accepted gospel verities as I shall set them forth.
There is no salvation in believing any false doctrine, particularly a false or unwise view about the Godhead or any of its members. Eternal life is reserved for those who know God and the One whom he sent to work out the infinite and eternal atonement.True and saving worship is found only among those who know the truth about God and the Godhead and who understand the true relationship men should have with each member of that Eternal Presidency.It follows that the devil would rather spread false doctrine about God and the Godhead, and induce false feelings with reference to any one of them, than almost any other thing he could do. The creeds of Christendom illustrate perfectly what Lucifer wants so-called Christian people to believe about Deity in order to be damned.
Doctrines of Eternal LifeLet us set forth those doctrines and concepts that a gracious God has given to us in this day and which must be understood in order to gain eternal life. They are:
1. We worship the Father and him only and no one else.We do not worship the Son, and we do not worship the Holy Ghost. I know perfectly well what the scriptures say about worshipping Christ and Jehovah, but they are speaking in an entirely different sense--the sense of standing in awe and being reverentially grateful to him who has redeemed us. Worship in the true and saving sense is reserved for God the first, the Creator.
Our revelations say that the Father "is infinite and eternal," that he created "man, male and female,"
And gave unto them commandments that they should love and serve him, the only living and true God, and that he should be the only being whom they should worship. [D&C 20:17–19]
Jesus said:True worshippers shall [note that this is mandatory] worship the Father in spirit and in truth; for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
For unto such hath God promised his Spirit. And they who worship him, must worship in spirit and in truth. [JST John 4:25–26]There is no other way, no other approved system of worship.
2. We love and serve both the Father and the Son.
In the full, final, and ultimate sense of the word the divine decree is:Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, with all thy might, mind, and strength; and in the name of Jesus Christ thou shalt serve him. [D&C 9:5]And Jesus also said:
If ye love me, keep my commandments. [John 14:15]
These, then, are the commandments of commandments. They tie the Father and the Son together, as one, so that both receive our love and service.3. Christ himself loves, serves, and worships the Father.Though Christ is God, yet there is a Deity above him, a Deity whom he worships. That God is the Father. To Mary Magdalene, the first mortal to see a resurrected person, Jesus said:I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. [John 20:17]All of us, Christ included, are the spirit children of the Father; all of us, Christ included, seek to become like the Father. In this sense the Firstborn, our Elder Brother, goes forward as we do.4. The plan of salvation is the gospel of the FatherThe plan of salvation originated with the Father; he is the Author and Finisher of our faith in the final sense; he ordained the laws by obedience to which both we and Christ can become like him.
The Father did not ask for volunteers to propose a plan whereby man might be saved. What he did was ask whom he should send to be the Redeemer in the plan he devised. Christ and Lucifer both volunteered, and the Lord chose his Firstborn and rejected the amendatory offer of the son of the morning.
Thus Paul spoke of "the gospel of God, . . . concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh" (Romans 1:1–3). It is the Father's gospel, it became the gospel of the Son by adoption, and we call it after Christ's name because his atoning sacrifice put all of its terms and conditions into operation.
5. Christ worked out his own salvation by worshiping the Father.After the Firstborn of the Father, while yet a spirit being, had gained power and
intelligence that made him like unto God; after he had become, under the Father, the Creator of worlds without number; after he had reigned on the throne of eternal power as the Lord Omnipotent--after all this he yet had to gain a mortal and then an immortal body.After the Son of God "made flesh" his "tabernacle," and while he "dwelt among the sons of men"; after he left his preexistent glory as we all do at birth; after he was born of Mary in Bethlehem of Judea--after all this he was called upon to work out his own salvation.Of our Lord's life while in this mortal probation the scripture says:
He received not of the fulness at the first, but received grace for grace;
And he received not of the fulness at first, but continued from grace to grace, until he received a fulness.Finally, after his resurrection,
he received a fulness of the glory of the Father;
And he received all power, both in heaven and on earth, and the glory of the Father was with him, for he dwelt in him. [D&C 93:12–14, 16–17]
Note it, please, the Lord Jesus worked out his own salvation while in this mortal probation by going from grace to grace, until, having overcome the world and being raised in immortal glory, he became like the Father in the full, complete, and eternal sense.6. All men must worship the Father in the same way Christ did in order to gain salvation.
Conclusion
Now I sincerely hope that no one will imagine that I have in the slightest degree downgraded the Lord Jesus in the scheme of things. I have not done so. As far as I know there is not a man on earth who thinks more highly of him than I do. It just may be that I have preached more sermons, taught more doctrine, and written more words about the Lord Jesus Christ than any other man now living. I have ten large volumes in print, seven of which deal almost entirely with Christ, and the other three with him and his doctrines.
I do not suppose that what I have here said will be an end to controversy or to the spread of false views and doctrines. The devil is not dead, and he delights in controversy. But you have been warned, and you have heard the true doctrine taught. Those who need to study the matter further would do well to get and study a copy of what I have said when it is published by Brigham Young University.
Let us then end on the note of testimony and of prayer. I bear record of the divine sonship of him whom we have this day spoken. He is or should be our best Friend through whom we can be reconciled to God.
And I pray that the true doctrine of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, who, as the Book of Mormon says, are one God, may be found in the hearts and souls of all of us. In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
14 That we henceforth be no more achildren, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the atruth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the bhead, even Christ:
Bruce R. McConkie
1. We worship the Father and him only and no one else.
We do not worship the Son, and we do not worship the Holy Ghost. I know perfectly well what the scriptures say about worshipping Christ and Jehovah, but they are speaking in an entirely different sense--the sense of standing in awe and being reverentially grateful to him who has redeemed us. Worship in the true and saving sense is reserved for God the first, the Creator.
G. B. Hinckley, “What Are People Asking about Us?” Ensign, Nov. 1998, 70
Are we Christians? Of course we are Christians. We believe in Christ. We worship Christ. We take upon ourselves in solemn covenant His holy name. The Church to which we belong carries His name. He is our Lord, our Savior, our Redeemer through whom came the great Atonement with salvation and eternal life.
Proclamation of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (April 6, 1980) [emphasis mine]
We call upon all men and women to forsake evil and turn to God; to work together to build that brotherhood which must be recognized when we truly come to know that God is our Father and we are his children; and to worship him and his Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, the Savior of mankind. In the authority of the Holy Priesthood in us vested, we bless the seekers of truth wherever they may be and invoke the favor of the Almighty upon all men and nations whose God is the Lord, in the name of Jesus Christ, amen [CR, Apr. 1980, pp. 75-77; see also Ensign 10 (May 1980): 51-53].
President Heber J. Grant
“Jesus Christ is literally the Son of God, the Only Begotten in the flesh. He is our Redeemer, and we worship him.” (See also: March 2008 Ensign, p. 10).
Bruce R. McConkie
1. We worship the Father and him only and no one else.
We do not worship the Son, and we do not worship the Holy Ghost. I know perfectly well what the scriptures say about worshipping Christ and Jehovah, but they are speaking in an entirely different sense--the sense of standing in awe and being reverentially grateful to him who has redeemed us. Worship in the true and saving sense is reserved for God the first, the Creator.
"God has also reminded me that the teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith have never invited (me) to join a Masonic Lodge," He Did others you Have been Tricked!!!!!!!
Did BRUCE R Mc help you? Did he Invite you and Help you with your personal Relationship and Worship or are you Confused
God has also reminded me that YOU have never invited me to know for a certainty His character, nor have you encouraged me to become familiar with Him. In fact, God has reminded me of what you have invited me to do:
TRUTH-
TRUST-
COURAGE-
HOLINESS-
RIGHTEOUSNESS-
REPENTANCE-(repeat)
your ultimate goals instead of promoting God’s ultimate goal through Christ.
TRUTH-
TRUST-
COURAGE-
HOLINESS-
RIGHTEOUSNESS-
REPENTANCE-(repeat)
If Freemasonry is The Temple Of Lucifer and Joseph Smith WAS a Freemason what would that Mean?
The Dark part above the preceeding is that these Apostles of The Mormon Church also swear and did Bind theselves to the Upper level Lodges and Masons. An interesting portion of the Masonic Temple initation (endowment) is the Cable Tow, The initate Be half Naked and Blind folded, Has a flaxen cord placed around His neck (Sounds like a nice thing to do on Aplostles night Out) and has the point of a compass placed upon his breast and is Cable Towed (Pulled by Flaxen Cord) into the Lodge.The Initates then Bows before an Alter and again makes a plea to Freemasonary and Proceed to learn the secret signs and Takes the Blood Oaths and Death Penalties and Becomes a Brother to all mason Binding themselves and being Bond by Lucifer's flaxen Cords
IS That The Mormon Prophets and Apostles Leader as you would Say;" God wants to make Himself known unto you so that He can help you be conformed into His image through Christ’s Atonement and the power of the Holy Ghost."
27 And now, my son, I command you that ye retain all their oaths, and their covenants, and their agreements in their secret abominations; yea, and all their signs and their wonders ye shall keep from this people, that they know them not, lest peradventure they should fall into darkness also and be destroyed.
"He told me that there are many things that I can learn about the history of this earth that can be useful to me if my main priority was to continue to advance in my ability to learn God from God so that I could finish becoming one with God."
Joseph Smiths actions would seem to be at odds with his "own" Scripture. Mormon scripture has evidence as to Who the Masons are
3Nephi 6:28 Moses 5:29-31 51 Helaman6:22-28
The Lord gave clear Commmandments not to Join the Secret Combinations Ether 8:18-19 22,24,as for swearing Blood oaths and the Death penalties affixed 3Nephi 12:34,36,Moses 5:29 some may have a Hard heart Helaman6:2
Joseph Fielding Smith [Mormon Prophet] stated: "Mormonism, as it is called, must stand or fall on the story of Joseph Smith. He was either a prophet of God, divinely called, properly appointed and commissioned, or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. There is no middle ground."
"If Joseph Smith was a deceiver, who wilfully attempted to mislead the people, then he should be exposed; his claims should be refuted, and his doctrines shown to be false, . . ." (Bruce R. McConkie, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 188-9.)
Turn Freemasonry inside out and find out if it is Good or Evil. If Free masonry is Evil Cabala Witch Craft let the Truth Speak. Was Joseph Smith called of God To partake of Swear Bloody Oaths and Covenants of Freemasonry or Not?
29 And Satan said unto Cain: Swear unto me by thy throat, and if thou tell it thou shalt die; and swear thy brethren by their heads, and by the living God, that they tell it not; for if they tell it, they shall surely die
"the Prophet Joseph Smith have never invited me to join a Masonic Lodge, participate in witchcraft, or to submit myself to Cain, Tubal Cain, or Lucifer. "
JOSEPH and THE BRETHERN did so SWEAR in Cains Temple!
I hope that you Now Understand that I am On a MISSION Now and Joseph Fielding Smith Gave me my Calling and so Did Bruce R McConkie
Please no do ask me to Leave my MISSION
Anonymous,
I have really gone back and forth on how to continue to reach out to you so that you would at some point allow God to make Himself known unto you through the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Ghost. That is something that you are not at all interested in. I have prepared lengthy responses to your concerns, but you seen only interested in having me convince you that some man or some collection of secular learning is where you need to be. In God’s hands is where you need to be.
It is such a circus to try to keep up with you and your constant lies. One minute you are anti-mormon, the next you love LDS people. One minute everything LDS is of the devil, the next you claim to be unshakable in your commitment to serve missions for certain LDS leader. Somehow Joseph Fielding Smith and Bruce R. McConkie are your new leaders in opposing the Joseph Smith and proving how the LDS Church has fallen because you claim He is fallen. You are ate up. I don’t know if you have a chemical imbalance, used too many drugs, or have just degenerated so far that Satan is in complete control over your life. It is obvious that you will not put your trust in God, come unto Him, or rely upon the Atoning Sacrifice of His Son. I pray for you, but am exhausted by your constant contradicting bickering. You really have no business commenting on anyone’s gospel related sites. I think you would feel more comfortable in Hell surrounded by the Devil and his angels. They are the ones who guide you anyway. I pray for God’s sake that you will one day turn unto Him and His Christ for salvation and guidance.
Anonymous,
I have really gone back and forth on how to continue to reach out to you so that you would at some point allow God to make Himself known unto you through the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Ghost. That is something that you are not at all interested in. I have prepared lengthy responses to your concerns, but you seen only interested in having me convince you that some man or some collection of secular learning is where you need to be. In God’s hands is where you need to be.
It is such a circus to try to keep up with you and your constant lies. One minute you are anti-mormon, the next you love LDS people. One minute everything LDS is of the devil, the next you claim to be unshakable in your commitment to serve missions for certain LDS leader. Somehow Joseph Fielding Smith and Bruce R. McConkie are your new leaders in opposing the Joseph Smith and proving how the LDS Church has fallen because you claim He is fallen. You are ate up. I don’t know if you have a chemical imbalance, used too many drugs, or have just degenerated so far that Satan is in complete control over your life. It is obvious that you will not put your trust in God, come unto Him, or rely upon the Atoning Sacrifice of His Son.
I pray for you, but am exhausted by your constant contradicting bickering. You really have no business commenting on anyone’s gospel related sites. I think you would feel more comfortable in Hell surrounded by the Devil and his angels. They are the ones who guide you anyway. I pray for God’s sake that you will one day turn unto Him and His Christ for salvation and guidance.
I AGAIN INVITE YOU TO LEARN TO PARTAKE OF GOD’S FULLNESS THROUGH THE ATONEMENT OF JESUS AND THE POWER OF THE HOLY GHOST—A MESSAGE THAT YOU ENTIRELY OPPOSE.
I HAVE ONE LAST QUESTION FOR YOU:
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. (John 14:23)
If Jesus and the Father are not coming to you and making their abode with you, IS IT BECAUSE YOU DON’T LOVE JESUS or because YOU DON’T KEEP HIS WORDS?
Happy Thanks Giving!!!!!!!
Romans 6:
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the blusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
"It is such a circus to try to keep up with you and your constant lies. One minute you are anti-mormon, the next you love LDS people. One minute everything LDS is of the devil, the next you claim to be unshakable in your commitment to serve missions for certain LDS leader. Somehow Joseph Fielding Smith and Bruce R. McConkie are your new leaders in opposing the Joseph Smith and proving how the LDS Church has fallen because you claim He is fallen."
Love the sinners hate the Sin
In Mormonism is the Circus of doctrine being tossed to and Fro.
Something like this
LDSism v/s LDSism v/s RLDSism v/s the Truth the old v/s the New.
If you have your calling and election made sure, and you Walk and Talk with Jesus I cannot take that away and neither would I wish to .
"Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. (John 14:23)"
But if you are claim something that is not True be careful.
But the Mormon Story and the Gospel are two different things,
If Mormonism is a Lie, God can still Love you and you Love Him, and you can Receive in spite of being LDS.
I do not depend on Mormonism or Trust in It.
My praise is to The Father thru Jesus not to the Man Joseph Smith!!!
If Mormonism is Not of Jesus you are in Joseph's Church-
That is my whole Point. Many times I have told you I do Not Wish to Take anything away From your relationship with GOD- My issues are not against you or Jesus, But Joseph.
I am agreed with God but at enmity with Lies-
Un perfect and a Sinner and in need of daily Forgiveness and Mercy-
Nothing that you say changes the fact that I and LDS are acting upon revelations that God has given to us and you are relying strictly upon the strength of your own intellect. Therefore ANY REMARKS THAT YOU MAKE ABOUT SPIRITUAL MATTERS ARE INVALID, because YOU DENY THE HOLY GHOST access to your life and choices.
So I ask you again “Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye. For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard” (Acts 4:19-20).
By your own admission, you live “a form of godliness, but deny…the power thereof” in your life, God counsels us through Paul, “from such turn away” (2 Timothy 3:5).
Paul precedes this by prophesying about people like you:
1This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures [including intellectual fetishes] more than lovers of God;
5 [Again,] Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away (2 Timothy 3:1-5).
It is not God’s way that you continue to rely upon the arm of flesh, “But ye shall receive power, AFTER that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and [THEN] ye shall be witnesses unto me [Jesus]” (Acts 1:8).
Not only this, but you justify telling lies, using half-truths, using double-talk, and laying snares to battle others in the name of God and His Truth. God does not use evil means to accomplish His purposes; He uses the power of the Holy Ghost to conform His children into His image (Romans 8:29) through faith in the Atonement of Jesus Christ and fellowship with the Godhead.
My invitation to you has always been, “That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ” (1 John 1:3). Since you do not “know…the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom [He] hast sent” (John 17:3), because YOU DENY THE HOLY GHOST of its role in your life, YOU CAN MAKE NO SUCH INVITATION. Again, you have no authority on spiritual matters.
“Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him” (John 14:23).
Again I ask, if Jesus and the Father are not coming unto you and not making their abode with you, IS IT BECAUSE YOU DO NOT LOVE JESUS or BECAUSE YOU DO NOT KEEP HIS WORDS?
By God I shall be judged and not by any man.
Seems that you have taken to task the Holy Ghost,
You have spoken where you ought Not, I will not speak The Mind of God or the Holy Ghost in your behalf, That is between you and THEM. and be Careful if you think you can speak on THEIR behalf for Me,
I have told you I will Not try to take anything away from you.
I have never Denied any promptings Of God or the Holy Ghost or any knowledge or Direction God Has given me in my Life. I have never Denied the Power of God or Godliness in my Life- So to whom, where and of which you speak you Know NOT. and you have Exposed your Self.
I have an open Dialog and have asked you to be specific and to the Point about Questions and True answers at getting to the TRUTH,
I invite you to Deal with the TRUTH and answer to questions- I will Have not received the Second Comforter or Have My calling and elections Made Sure as you imply that you have. if you are claiming a Direct Connect perhaps you could answer some very easy Questions
If you will not answer the Questions for my sake at least answer for the sake of those following this Post.
Did Joseph Smith ever Preach or Practice Polygamy in spite of Many Evidences to the Contrary? Y-N
If Joseph Smith was a Polygamy Practicing Prophet how Many Living wives did he Have??
Is Polygamy still Required for Exaltation??
Was Joseph Smith a Freemason??
Is Freemasonry and Its Temple of the LODGE OF ST JOHN????
Is Freemasonry of the Lucifer/Cain/Tubal Cain RITE??
Is Freemasonry a Secret Combination, Priest Craft and has Many bits and portions of Witch craft??
Word for Word How much in % did Joseph Smith take from Freemasonry with Signs, Tokens, Grips, Passwords, an introduce into the Endowment??
Did Joseph Smith administer the LDS endowment in a Masonic Lodge??
Is there a true Historical line in Freemasonry Going back to the Temple of Solomon and to the tower of BABEL??
Why do Mormons Have The Gnostic View of the Fall.
Why do Mormon Believe that God is in fact not Trustworthy in giving two Commandments in Opposition to each other??
Can you answer any real Questions or are you Going to Hide From the TRUTH??
IF I have lied anywhere please say so!!
IF I have made a mistake let me know!!
Thank you for all of your Invitations,
Now I shall make an Invitation to TRUTH (John 14: 6) to You.
I invite you to search the WORD (John1:1) the Scriptures.
I invite you to display your Answers under the Influence of the HOLY GHOST.
Answer not for Me alone but for all of us and If I Am a LIAR or of Lucifer let the TRUTH be Known,
Lets really makes this real and Count.
I say so in the eyes of Man, Angels and God that the TRUTH be KNOWN.
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
JOHN 14: 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15 ¶ If ye alove me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
D&C 93: 1 VERILY, thus saith the Lord: It shall come to pass that every soul who forsaketh his sins and cometh unto me, and calleth on my name, and obeyeth my voice, and keepeth my commandments, shall see my face and know that I am;
Romans 5: 5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
1st Cor2: 10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what manaknoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s awisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man breceiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
One minute you condemn Joseph Fielding Smith’s teachings on the moon. The next you beg of me not to deter you of your loyalty to him and the mission he called you on.
You said:
“I hope that you Now Understand that I am On a MISSION Now and Joseph Fielding Smith Gave me my Calling and so Did Bruce R McConkie
Please no do ask me to Leave my MISSION”
Do you oppose Joseph Fielding Smith OR did you in fact receive a calling from him and Bruce R. McConkie? Do you really hope that I understand that you are on a mission for them and really desire me to not ask you to leave that mission?
Did you receive this call before or after they died and who set you apart? “Wherefore, I the Lord ask you this question—unto what were ye ordained? To preach my gospel by the Spirit, even the Comforter which was sent forth to teach the truth” (D&C 50:13 - 14).
Do you preach by the Spirit, even the Comforter, or don’t you?
You have said:
“I have never Denied any promptings Of God or the Holy Ghost or any knowledge or Direction God Has given me in my Life. I have never Denied the Power of God or Godliness in my Life- So to whom, where and of which you speak you Know NOT. and you have Exposed your Self.”
But as well you have said:
“I am not to the Level of such an ONE as who claims to Walk and Talk with god, the son or holy ghost many hours"
“I am no prophet and I do not claim to Walk and Talk with a "god'.”
“And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the LORD's people were prophets, and that the LORD would put his spirit upon them!” (Numbers 11:29)
Do you receive communication from God or don’t you?
Do you aspire to follow Moses testimony that God would have you to be a prophet and put His Spirit upon you OR do you oppose such ideas?
You have claimed:
“I have told you I will Not try to take anything away from you.”
Yet you desire that I and LDS people turn from the revelations that God has given us through the Holy Ghost and by the Grace of Christ’s Atonement unto something you claim:
“That is Not a Revelation But it is True!!!!!!!!”
THE PEOPLE WHO POST ON THIS SITE WOULD LOVE TO DISCUSS WITH YOU THE THINGS THAT YOU HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT.
HOWEVER, WE NEVER KNOW WHEN YOU ARE LYING OR TELLING THE TRUTH.
YOU CONTINUE TO FLIP-FLOP YOUR STANCES ON EVERYTHING EXCEPT THE FACT THAT YOU CONTINUE TO OPPOSE US AND THE THINGS THAT GOD HAS REVEALED TO US.
“If you will not answer the Questions for my sake at least answer for the sake of those following this Post.”
So that we may know if continuing to try to discuss things with you is not a complete waste of time.
“Lets really makes this real and Count.
I say so in the eyes of Man, Angels and God that the TRUTH be KNOWN.”
Mormonisms CONTINUE TO FLIP-FLOP YOUR STANCES ON EVERYTHING EXCEPT THE FACT THAT YOU CONTINUE TO OPPOSE US AND THE THINGS THAT GOD HAS REVEALED TO US. ??????
An Invitation to the Truth or to expose the Lies-
Please point out each and every lie!!!
POINT for POINT Question and Answers
You are Hiding from The Truth and Keep switching from the Truth to Me- I am not "Called" and JFS and Bruce R quoted JSF ""If Joseph Smith was a deceiver, who wilfully attempted to mislead the people, then he should be exposed; his claims should be refuted, and his doctrines shown to be false, . . ." (Bruce R. McConkie, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 188-9.)
In that Sense and Spirit That calling is open to ALL-
Do you think if I asked a Bishop to that Calling he would ordain Me? This is not about You or Me it is easy it is about the TRUTH,
Mormonisms are the Fish out of Water-Flip Flop
So instead of trying to Avoid the very easy questions and answers, you try to attack Me-
I am NOT the WORD, the WAY, the LIFE, and LIGHT of the World- Those are Titles of Jesus Christ!!!!
and Those Names are HIS.
But for you, you can be the most humble, holy, educated and spiritual creature in your eyes, YOU WON, You are the WINNER, you can have all the Glory, Praises and shouts- keep them all yours
But you still avoid the Truth and do not Answer those questions - Very simple little questions that knock on the Door of TRUTH
Word for Word Point for Point you can deal with the Truth in questions and answers, or you can make it personal, and attack Me.Tell the Truth show the Lies
I am a low human being and not mingling with gods in yonder heavens sitting as a savior on mt zion.
But I do know where the Mormon LIES are and I do get partial glimpses at the Truth, I am not a church or a prophet just a little weak little human with a few Questions, come on stand up for the Truth, answer some questions- I am to easy a target you WIN,
But the Truth stands even if I fall.
Now I shall make an Invitation to TRUTH (John 14: 6) to You.
Did Joseph Smith ever Preach or Practice Polygamy in spite of Many Evidences to the Contrary? Y-N
If Joseph Smith was a Polygamy Practicing Prophet how Many Living wives did he Have??
Is Polygamy still Required for Exaltation??
Was Joseph Smith a Freemason??
Is Freemasonry and Its Temple of the LODGE OF ST JOHN????
Is Freemasonry of the Lucifer/Cain/Tubal Cain RITE??
Is Freemasonry a Secret Combination, Priest Craft and has Many bits and portions of Witch craft??
Word for Word How much in % did Joseph Smith take from Freemasonry with Signs, Tokens, Grips, Passwords, an introduce into the Endowment??
Did Joseph Smith administer the LDS endowment in a Masonic Lodge??
Is there a true Historical line in Freemasonry Going back to the Temple of Solomon and to the tower of BABEL??
Why do (FREE) masons and why did Mormons keep the Black descendants from Cain from their Endowments and all the Blessing s and then Flip Flop?
Was The Black Dark Cain a Prejudice, a Practice or a Doctrine?
Why do Mormons Have The Gnostic View of the Fall.
Why do Mormon Believe that God is in fact not Trustworthy in giving two Commandments in Opposition to each other??
Can you answer any real Questions or are you Going to Hide From the TRUTH??
IF I have lied anywhere please say so!!
IF I have made a mistake let me know!!
Thank you for all of your Invitations,
Now I shall make an Invitation to TRUTH (John 14: 6) to You.
I invite you to search the WORD (John1:1) the Scriptures.
I invite you to display your Answers under the Influence of the HOLY GHOST.
Please do not attack Me, please display the Truth and deal with it. Please point out the LIES or Mistakes
quit hiding form the truth
I hate to go here, but you really push.
“I guess I Is a Become likes a Black MAN? Darky yes”
Very offended by your portrayal of black people. Darky huh? Nice one.
I never would condone the use of terms such as WHITEY, HONKY, PECKERWOOD, CRACKER, or in your case the more appropriate WHITE DEVIL. Thanks a lot for being such a racist and not being afraid of showing YOUR true colors—even so much so to exploit them in order to get gain in your religious debate ambitions.
It is my testimony that God, according to His perfect mercy and desire for His children to become like Himself, has done all in His power to provide the most perfect circumstances in mortality for us to benefit from the Atonement of His Only Begotten Son despite the progression levels, indecisiveness, or difficulties we yet needed to overcome from pre-mortality. As long as we did not openly rebel against Him, He has allowed all of His children the opportunity to become equal as co-inheritors with Jesus Christ in the end. Although we have not all been born in the same circumstances, WE ALL ULTIMATELY NEED THE ATONEMENT OF JESUS CHRIST IN ORDER TO BE COMFORMED INTO HIS IMAGE AND LIKENESS NO MATTER WHAT COLOR OUR SKIN IS.
“Then [NOW MAYBE] you can explain about Denying Mormon Gospel to Blacks Cain's Cursed Seed and Tell All------
V/S
TRUTH-
TRUST-
COURAGE-
HOLINESS-
RIGHTEOUSNESS-
REPENTANCE-“
Your vague list offers:
No mention of how to inherit all that the Father has,
No encouragement to rely upon the Grace and Mercy of the Atonement of Jesus Christ,
No encouragement to use the Holy Ghost or instruction on how to obtain it as a constant companion,
AND
No explanation of God’s ultimate purpose or how to obtain it.
YOUR LIST IS NO MORE THAN MAN’S ATTEMPT TO JUSTIFY HIMSELF WITH A RELIGIOUS FRONT WHILE OPPOSING GOD’S POWER AND PURPOSES.
NOW YOU STOOP TO AN ALL NEW LOW BY TRYING TO EXPLOIT SKIN COLOR IN ORDER TO TRAP THOSE WHO ACTUALLY ENCOURAGE ALL MANKIND TO PARTAKE OF GOD’S FULLNESS BY OFFERING THE ONLY CLEAR AND DISTINCTIVE PATH TO ACCOMPLISH GOD’S ULTIMATE PURPOSE THROUGH JESUS CHRIST.
YOU MIGHT TRY BURNING CROSSES NEXT TIME YOU RACIST HYPOCRITE!!!
CAN YOU FEEL THE LOVE TO TO NIGHT?
"Shall I tell you the LAW OF GOD in regard to the AFRICAN race? If the WHITE MAN who belongs to the CHOSEN SEED mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is DEATH ON THE SPOT. This will ALWAYS be so." LDS "Prophet" Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 10, p.110, 1863,
"How long is that race to endure the dreadful curse that is upon them? That curse will REMAIN UPON THEM, and THEY NEVER CAN HOLD THE PRIESTHOOD or share in it until all the other descendants of Adam have received the promises and enjoyed the blessings of the Priesthood and the keys thereof. Until the last ones of the residue of Adam's children are brought up to that favourable position, THE CHILDREN OF CAIN CANNOT RECEIVE THE FIRST ORDINANCES OF THE PRIESTHOOD. They were the first that were cursed, and they will be the last from whom the curse will be removed. When the residue of the family of Adam come up and receive their blessings, then the curse will be removed from the seed of Cain, and they will receive blessings in like proportion." LDS "Prophet" Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, pp. 290-291, 1859,
"In the spirit of SYMPATHY, MERCY and faith, we will also hope that blessings may eventually be given to our negro brethren, for they are our brethren - children of God - NOTWITHSTANDING THEIR BLACK COVERING EMBLEMATICAL OF ETERNAL DARKNESS." LDS "Prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith, The Way to Perfection, p. 102, 1931,
"...[T]he NEGRO SEEKS ABSORPTION WITH THE WHITE RACE. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it BY INTERMARRIAGE. THAT IS HIS OBJECTIVE and we must face it. We must not ...feel so sorry for negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have." LDS "Apostle" Mark E. Petersen, "Race Problems - As They Affect The Church," Address delivered at Brigham Young University, August 27, 1954
...[W]orthy males of all races can now receive the Melchizedek Priesthood.... It means that members of all races may now be married in the temple, although INTERRACIAL MARRIAGES ARE DISCOURAGED by the Brethren...." LDS "Apostle" Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pp. 526-528, 1979--www.mormonzeitgeist.com/node/273
DARKY? LOVE LOVE LOVE Black Darky Love
Joseph Fielding Smith, tenth President and Prophet.
In 1963, Look magazine interviewed, at that time, the leader of the LDS Church; Joseph Fielding Smith. Concerning negroes, Smith stated:
I would not want you to believe that we bear any animosity toward the Negro. 'DARKIES' are wonderful people, and they have their place in our church (Look magazine, October 22, 1963, 79 Yes under the BUS
www.christiandefense.org/mor_black.htm
You have never offered me any encouragement or clear statements on what God’s ultimate purpose is for me, or how I might accomplish it.
Those that Have eyes to see and Ears to Hear, Listen
TRUTH- Seek GOD and His WORD as TRUTH Seek the Truth, Test IT, Know IT, Feel IT Find IT, Seek the TRUTH, Pray to Find It, ask God For IT
TRUST- GOD is Trustworthy- His character is Trustworthy-GOD is Eternal and Everlasting and Does not lie- Nor does He tempt Man
COURAGE-
HOLINESS-
RIGHTEOUSNESS-
REPENTANCE-
More to follow
You got a lot of …nerve!!!
ARE YOU BLACK? CAN YOU SPEAK FOR SOMEONE ELSE'S RACE?
Do you want me to speak for all your slave-master ancestors that enslaved, tortured, and murdered my African and Hebrew ones?
What about the Holocaust? Do you want me to lay that on your shoulders? YOU DO PRACTICE SPIRITUAL EUTHANASIA AND LDS GENOCIDE?
Since you like secular references, why don’t you check out:
http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/Perspectives_1/Willie_Lynch_letter_The_Making_of_a_Slave.shtml
Then you can learn more about the generational repercussions that your people forcefully imposed upon mine. You will find that you practice these same tactics on this site. Humiliation, Division, Hopelessness, Destroying the Family, and Enslavement. Willie Lynch is probably your role model anyway.
YOU SEEK TO DESTROY GOD’S FAMILY BY TURNING THEM INTO SECULAR WARRIORS.
THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU AND ME IS THAT I HAVE THE REVELATIONS OF GOD IN MY LIFE TO GUIDE ME WHEN SECULAR PRESENTATIONS DO NOT MAKE SENSE?
You have claimed:
“I have told you I will Not try to take anything away from you.”
YET ONCE AGAIN YOU DESIRE THAT I TURN FROM THE REVELATIONS THAT GOD HAS GIVEN ME THROUGH THE HOLY GHOST AND BY THE GRACE OF CHRIST’S ATONEMENT unto more of your crap.
Since you obviously aren’t lead by the Holy Spirit of God in your life, and love to wallow in secular presentations, I will give you this:
For thousands of years your slave-master ancestors were denied the priesthood because they were not Hebrew or specifically Levites.
For thousands of years it was forbidden to mix the seed of Abraham with your slave-master seed.
Christ almost denied a begging Gentile because she was not Israel (Matthew 15:21–28).
After researching that, are you going to become anti-God and anti-Christ (even though you already are), and condemn them on the charge of racism? WAKE UP, TURN TO GOD AND LIVE!!!
Fortunately for all God’s children, He continues to open the door for more and more of us to have access to the fullness of the Everlasting Gospel of Jesus Christ.
If this weren’t the case your slave-master blood would deny you! Stop trying to dig up stuff that is irrelevant and trying to ignite a racial war between people who are lead by God’s Holy Spirit.
Next time you want to ignite a war between blacks and the faithful LDS, why don’t you try being black…or a faithful LDS!
You are only in this sinking ship of yours because you stopped following the guidance God is trying to give you through the Holy Ghost, because of Christ’s Atonement, and began putting your trust in secular resources. Don’t drag others down with you. I have more reason to be skeptical because of my African and Hebrew ancestry than you. Your Mormon Zion attempts are crap too. Would you like me to pull out all of my Jewish resources?
The Holy Ghost works for me, it can work for you too!
You said:
“TRUTH- Seek GOD and His WORD as TRUTH Seek the Truth, Test IT, Know IT, Feel IT Find IT, Seek the TRUTH, Pray to Find It, ask God For IT
TRUST- GOD is Trustworthy- His character is Trustworthy-GOD is Eternal and Everlasting and Does not lie- Nor does He tempt Man”
I have and do. You have absolutely nothing to do with God, Goodness, Peace, Encouragement, Charity, Christ, the Atonement, or the Holy Spirit—although you use those terms like this is some kind of game. When I apply such teachings in my life, God truly does manifest His Trustworthy character to me.
“ Who art thou? For behold, I am a son of God, in the similitude of his Only Begotten; and where is thy glory, that I should worship thee? For behold, I could not look upon God, except his glory should come upon me, and I were transfigured before him. But I can look upon thee in the natural man. Is it not so, surely? Blessed be the name of my God, for his Spirit hath not altogether withdrawn from me, or else WHERE IS THY GLORY, FOR IT IS DARKNESS UNTO ME? AND I CAN JUDGE BETWEEN THEE AND GOD; for God said unto me: WORSHIP GOD, FOR HIM ONLY SHALT THOU SERVE (Moses 1:13 - 15).
Just to let you know, I would much rather be engaged in uplifting discussions that allow us to edify one another through the Holy Ghost. After I answer your previous questions, I have some I would like you to answer. After that I am considering dusting off my sandals as a witness against you. You obviously have no interest in edifying others unto God by His Holy Spirit?
(For all the other readers, I am also of Caucasian decent and meant no offense to any WHITE people. Anonymous just has a lot of nerve to try to play the race card in their deffense.)
Polygamy
“As polygamists Abraham and Jacob were the friends of God; worthy to converse with Him, and to receive His blessing on themselves and their wives and children; worthy of associating with angels from Heaven, and of being filled with the holy and pure spirit of prophecy and of revelation; while, for their sakes, kings were reproved, saying, touch not mine own anointed, and do my prophets no harm.””
“As a polygamist Jacob gave twelve tribes to the world instead of two, which was the number born by his first intended, his beloved Rachel. While, on the other hand, his sons visited a whole city with the sword, because its ruler had seduced their sister Dinah.”
“As a polygamist Moses beheld the face of God, and was filled with His glory to that degree that his face shone like that of an angel.”
“As a polygamist, David, the anointed King and Prophet of Israel, was called a man after God’s own heart; and God Himself expressly declares, by the mouth of Nathan the Prophet, that he gave him his wives.
While, as an adulterer with the wife of Uriah, and the murderer of her husband, he is reproved by the word of the Lord; and, although he sorely repented, yet the child of his adultery died; and his punishment was, that the sword should not depart from his house; that his wives should be taken from him and given to another; and his own salvation was suspended for ages–the Apostle Peter himself declaring, in his day, that the patriarch, David, had not yet ascended into Heaven.”
Polygamy continued…
“As polygamists, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are approved and commended by Jesus Christ, who expressly declares that, “many shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south; and shall set down with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the Kingdom of God.””
“Sir, the Apostle Paul sets forth Abraham, the polygamist, as the father of the faithful; worthy of all imitation, as heir of the eternal covenants and promises; in whose seed all nations shall be blessed. He shows, most clearly, that the gospel introduces us into the family of polygamists; makes us children of Abraham, and heirs to the same covenants.”
“Again, sir, John the Revelator describes the eternal Jerusalem of Heaven, the Royal City of our God, as peopled and governed by the great family of polygamists; which, in its lineage, includes Jesus and the holy prophets and apostles of all ages. The pearly gates are embellished with the names of twelve polygamists, the sons of four women by one man.” (Parley P. Pratt, Autobiography of, excerpts from ch. 51)
“Did Joseph Smith ever Preach or Practice Polygamy in spite of Many Evidences to the Contrary? Y-N” you ask.
Yes he did. And your point?
WHAT THE BOOK OF MOSES REALLY TEACHES ABOUT THE FALL.
(The non-contorted, non-Anonymous version)
Was it Down or Up? Does it promote Secret Gnostic Knowledge obtained from Obeying the Devil, or does it promote ULTIMATE RELIANCE UPON and EXPOUNDED TEACHINGS on the ATONEMENT OF JESUS CHRIST?
IF YOU READ THE WHOLE FIFTH CHAPTER IN THE BOOK OF MOSES WHERE ADAM AND EVE REJOICE (INSTEAD OF ISOLATING STATEMENTS) IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE.
Verse 1
God is unpleased with Adam and Eve’s choice to heed the Devil and kicks them out of the garden. Then God comments that Adam has been obedient to everything He has commanded him since the Fall, and that Eve is with him in obedience to everything God has commanded.
Verses 2 & 3
Then it discusses Adam and Eve's children becoming numerous enough to pair off and have children of their own. (many years have passed since the Fall)
Verses 4 & 5
Then it discusses Adam receiving the command from God to make animal sacrifice.
Verses 6-8
After Adam is obedient to that too (and many days later) an angel comes to explain what the sacrifice means.
“And then the angel spake, saying: This thing is a similitude of the sacrifice of the Only Begotten of the Father, which is full of grace and truth. Wherefore, thou shalt do all that thou doest in the name of the Son, and thou shalt repent and call upon God in the name of the Son forevermore” (Moses 5:7 - 8).
(I don't know of any Christian denomination that would say that what the angel taught Adam was wrong, even if they don't believe in the book of Moses.)
Verses 9-11
After the angel leaves, Adam is filled with the Holy Ghost and begins to prophesy. Afterwards, Eve rejoices as well in what the angel and the Holy Ghost taught them.
IT IS ONLY AFTER BEING OBEDIENT TO GOD FOR MANY YEARS, DOING ANIMAL SACRIFICE, HAVING AN ANGEL TEACH HIM ABOUT THE ATONEMENT, AND BEING FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST THAT ADAM DECLARES THAT HIS EYES ARE NOW OPENED AND HE CAN REJOICE IN THE FALL BECAUSE OF THE ATONEMENT. THEN EVE AGREES WITH HIS SPIRIT FILLED TESTIMONY.
So what was this Spirit filled testimony that they found so much joy in?
“And in that day the Holy Ghost fell upon Adam, which beareth record of the Father and the Son, saying: I am the Only Begotten of the Father from the beginning, henceforth and forever, that as thou hast fallen thou mayest be redeemed, and all mankind, even as many as will” (Moses 5:9).
NO FALL UPWARD, NO OBTAINING SECRET GNOSIS FROM SATAN TO BUILD A TOWER TO GET TO HEAVEN, NO WORSHIPPING SATAN INSTEAD OF GOD THROUGH CHRIST
ONLY PROFOUND TEACHINGS ON THE CONSEQUENCE OF SIN, REPENTANCE, THE NEED OF AN ATONEMENT, THE VOICE OF GOD TO MAN, MINISTERING ANGELS, AND THE OUTPOURING OF THE HOLY GHOST THROUGH FAITH IN CHRIST’S ATONEMENT.
The Real LDS View of Joseph Smith Compared to Jesus Christ
You continue to accuse me of praising Joseph Smith more than God. You already know that is not true. Apart from reminding you of your own lies about me, I thought you would enjoy this comment about how the LDS people at large feel about Joseph and his service to Christ.
Many traditional Christians envision Peter standing at the "pearly gates." They are uncomfortable with the misunderstanding that Brigham Young said Joseph Smith will take Peter's place. The thoughtful reader, however, will search the entire discourse delivered by Brigham Young and see that this is not what he was teaching.
Each dispensation has a prophet at its head. Moses taught in his dispensation that those who looked to the serpent on a pole would live. This was a type (Alma 33:19) or similitude of the Savior. Those who didn't obey Moses and would not look, didn't live. Accepting what Moses said in that dispensation was the "passport" to life.
As Christ said:
“Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?” (John 5:45-47)
If they didn't believe in Moses, he wasn't their "passport."
Noah offered "salvation" to those who would join him in the ark. Those who were disobedient and failed to enter the ark were swept off the earth in the flood and ended up in spirit prison (1 Peter 3:20). Again, as the prophet of his dispensation, Noah provided the "passport" for those who accepted the word of God that came through him.
In the meridian of time, those who accepted the apostles and prophets and did not reject the message of Jesus Christ were saved. As the Lord said to the apostles, "He that receiveth you receiveth me" (Matt. 10:40).
While speaking about our own dispensation, Brigham Young said that people of this dispensation will not enter God's Kingdom without the "consent" and "certificate" of Joseph Smith as a passport to entering where God and Christ are. Brigham Young then explained what he meant: "It is his [Joseph's] mission to see that all the children of men in this last dispensation are saved, that can be, through the redemption" (Journal of Discourses, vol.7, p.289).
The Real LDS View of Joseph Smith Compared to Jesus Christ continued…
The "passport," then, that people will need to enter heaven is the same as they have always needed, no matter what dispensation they lived in. To accept Christ is to accept his prophets: without the priesthood authority and inspired teachings of the Lord that have come through Joseph Smith, no one in this dispensation, living or dead, can be redeemed.
Anti-Mormon critics distort this view, trying to make it appear that Joseph Smith will be standing by the gate of heaven admitting or rejecting those who seek to enter. This is not the picture that is painted by Brigham Young. He was merely stating that the mission of Joseph Smith, God's prophet, was "to see that all the children of men in the last dispensation are saved, that can be through the redemption."
It should be recognized that the Savior is a great delegator. He has delegated to the "head" of each dispensation certain responsibilities, including some preliminary judging responsibilities. For example, in New Testament times the Apostles were told that they will judge the twelve tribes of Israel (Matt 19:28). Literally, then, those of the Twelve Tribes won't "get to Heaven" without the consent of the Apostles.
Latter-day Saints do not believe Joseph Smith is the keeper of the gate of heaven, nor the one who determines whether we are saved. Some Christians think they will instead meet Peter at the "pearly gates," but The Book of Mormon teaches who will really be the final "gatekeeper":
“O then, my beloved brethren, come unto the Lord, the Holy One. Remember that his paths are righteous. Behold, the way for man is narrow, but it lieth in a straight course before him, and the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel; and he employeth no servant there; and there is none other way save it be by the gate; for he cannot be deceived, for the Lord God is his name” (2 Nephi 9:41).
I HAVE ANSWERED YOUR QUESTIONS, SO PLEASE ANSWER MINE.
Why do you lie about the Holy Ghost in your life by making claims like:
“I have never Denied any promptings Of God or the Holy Ghost or any knowledge or Direction God Has given me in my Life. I have never Denied the Power of God or Godliness in my Life- So to whom, where and of which you speak you Know NOT. and you have Exposed your Self.”
And follow it with more lies about the Holy Ghost like:
“I am not to the Level of such an ONE as who claims to Walk and Talk with god, the son or holy ghost many hours"
“I am no prophet and I do not claim to Walk and Talk with a "god'.”
Why do you lie and say:
“I hope that you Now Understand that I am On a MISSION Now and Joseph Fielding Smith Gave me my Calling and so Did Bruce R McConkie
Please no do ask me to Leave my MISSION”
And follow it with:
“I am not "Called" and JFS and Bruce R”
Are Cain, Tubal Cain, the tower of Babel, or Hiram Abiff mentioned or shown in LDS Temple worship?
Are participants in LDS Temple worship lead blindfold, have a flaxen cord placed around their necks, bow down, or declare that they are in darkness in need of light?
I HAVE ANSWERED YOUR QUESTIONS, SO PLEASE ANSWER MINE continued…
Do LDS swear oaths to Cain, Tubal Cain, or Lucifer in LDS Temple worship?
Is Lucifer portrayed as good (a friend of God) or evil (an enemy to God) in LDS Temple worship?
You claim that LDS Temple worship is part of secret combinations, what do the LDS combine to accomplish in LDS Temple worship?
How can you justify telling lies to trap and destroy people and claim you are doing God’s work?
How can you justify telling lies to trap and destroy people by attempting to lead them away from the revelations that God gives them, by the Grace of Jesus Christ and through the Holy Ghost, and claim you are doing God’s work?
“Yea, [the Devil] saith unto them: Deceive and lie in wait to catch, that ye may destroy; behold, this is no harm. And thus he flattereth them, and telleth them that it is no sin to lie that they may catch a man in a lie, that they may destroy him.And thus he flattereth them, and leadeth them along until he draggeth their souls down to hell; and thus he causeth them to catch themselves in their own snare” (D&C 10:25 - 26).
If you will not answer these questions as well as own up to your lies and snare-laying, then I dust my sandal off before you becuase you have no interest in edifying with truth or the Holy Ghost!
Pure in our Generations? Who Since Noah is Pure in their Generations?
Okay just so you Know you Have WON and that you are the WINNER - I Concede That as to "MORMONISMs" I am "Apostate" For your sake every stone and stick that you throw at me I deserve- But as I said God will Judge me I will be Judged of no Man. ( we can let GOD decide) And if as Brigham Young said "But let them apostatize, and they will become gray-haired, wrinkled, and black, just like the Devil" (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 332 I Pray GOD will Return my "Pure White and Delightsome Nature Back to Me. I do not Know If you are Black or Jewish But is God Going to Make you a MORMON WHITEY? And if you are Black or Jewish I do apologize for the Rudeness of Those in the Mormon Leader Ship- I was Pointing out another Mormon Masonic Doctrine! I was "Quoting" and not making a true personal attack.
I HAVE ANSWERED YOUR QUESTIONS, SO PLEASE ANSWER MINE continued…
Do LDS swear oaths to Cain, Tubal Cain, or Lucifer in LDS Temple worship?
I Know that in fact Mormons have changed Many parts of the Endowment, as original from the Times to Joseph Smith the Endowment Included the Oath and Covenant of Bindings- And how to Bind one self to Lucifer thru Secret Combinations Death Oaths and Penalties As Part of freemasonry YES TUBAL CAIN
Those Blood Death Oaths With Penalties Have Nothing to Do with Jesus Christ-FREEMASONRY likes to Pretend that FreeMasonry is Not a RELIGION but Swears its Members IN THE NAME OF THE LORD by their HEAD, HEART and BOWELS- with Deadly OATHS AND COVENANTS This is LUCIFER"S form of Initation
Not FROM JESUS CHRIST-
SO close in form and fashion Learning How to Swear Brethren In Form and Fashion in THE NAME OF THE LORD in a Luciferian Manner.
Joseph Smith Received the Lucifer Bindings From Freemasonry and Shared It with the "CHURCH"
Masons- are St Johns Lodge of Gnosticism
3Nephi 6:28 Moses 5:29-31 51 Helaman6:22-28
The Lord gave clear Commmandments not to Join the Secret Combinations Ether 8:18-19 22,24,as for swearing Blood oaths and the Death penalties affixed 3Nephi 12:34,36,Moses 5:29 some may have a Hard heart Helaman 6:2
Under-Stand This FREEMASONRY IS THE EXPRESS HIGHWAY TO HELL, AND JOSEPH SMITH WAS A FREEMASON as were almost all of the Leadership of LDS YOUNG faction.
FREEMASONRY IS THE HIGHWAY AND MORMONISM RUNS ALONG SIDE TO THE SAME PLACE NEXT TO THE SAME PATH
the Masonic Temple initation (endowment) is the Cable Tow, The initate Be half Naked and Blind folded, Has a flaxen cord placed around His neck (Sounds like a nice thing to do on Aplostles night Out) and has the point of a compass placed upon his breast and is Cable Towed (Pulled by Flaxen Cord) into the Lodge.The Initates then Bows before an Alter and again makes a plea to Freemasonary and Proceed to learn the secret signs and Takes the Blood Oaths and Death Penalties and Becomes a Brother to all mason Binding themselves and being Bond by Lucifer's flaxen Cords
-How can you justify telling lies to trap and destroy people and claim you are doing God’s work?----
Please Tell me The Lies, I am not a Prophet, or a Church, and I do not claim to Have receive the
7th degree of Freemasonry- The Right of Exaltation
and having my Calling and Election made Sure.
Reduce Me to Cain as Did B. YOUNG, Call me White Devil as you Have. Okay call me WHITE DEVIL CAIN.
Now That we are past that stuff about me and how bad I am, maybe we could move on.
www.scottish-rite-mn.org/degrees.htm#Lodge%20of%20Perfection
The degrees of the Lodge of Perfection are better known as the "Ineffable Degrees" of Scottish Rite Masonry because their principal purpose is the investigation and contemplation of the ineffable (unspeakable) name of Deity. We provide a brief statement of the moral teachings found within each degree.
English Freemasonry recognised the Royal Arch as part of "pure, ancient masonry", but stated that it was not an additional degree, but merely the "completion of the third degree".
Scotland: The degree is conferred in a Royal Arch Chapter which is within a wholly different administrative structure (the Supreme Grand Royal Arch Chapter of Scotland). Due to a difference in ritual, Royal Arch Masons exalted in England may not attend Scottish Royal Arch Chapters without completing the Scottish exaltation ceremony.
www.lds-mormon.com/masonry2.shtml
Yet Joseph Smith, Heber C. Kimball and others knew and commented on the Masonic connections. Even in Joseph's own day, the Endowment was referred to as "Joseph's Lodge." I assure you that this was not because of a few superficial similarities in wording and grips. The two rituals are conceptually very similar, and use similar devices. I will say that the purpose of the Endowment is somewhat different.
LUCIFER CAIN FREEMASONY
Tubal-Cain: Who he was, and what that says about the nature of Freemasonry given it is the secret password of a (Master Mason.Joseph SMITH)???????
F&AM= FREE AND ACCEPTED MASON
MORMONS AND MASONS DID NOT SEE BLACKs AS EQUAL OR FREE- and yes they had slave masons and they were NOT ACCEPTED they were BLACK
Gnostic Luciferian Doctrine of The Fall=Mormon Doctrine
"How can you justify telling lies"
Because I like to COPY & PASTE it is rather hard to say I am a LIAR, It is usually scriptures including
(LDS) or Mormon History with some "secular" Links.
PLEASE TELL THE LIES I am Waiting
JAMES 5: 12 But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.
34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God’s throne:
35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
Moses5: 29 And Satan said unto Cain: Swear unto me by thy throat, and if thou tell it thou shalt die; and swear thy brethren by their heads, and by the living God, that they tell it not; for if they tell it, they shall surely die;
30 And Satan sware unto Cain that he would do according to his commands. And all these things were done in secret.
31 And Cain said: Truly I am Mahan, the master of this great secret, that I may murder and get gain. Wherefore Cain was called Master Ma.....
" So if you have some problem with oaths take it up with God. Tell God that he was being wicked (according to you) and that he is a secret Mason."
Old T. oaths were not in the manner and Fashion of Death oaths and SWEARING by their Heads!!!!!!
ETHEr 8:18 And it came to pass that they formed a secret acombination, even as they of old; which combination is most abominable and wicked above all, in the sight of God;
19 For the Lord worketh not in secret combinations, neither doth he will that man should shed blood, but in all things hath forbidden it, from the beginning of man.
20 And now I, Moroni, do not write the manner of their oaths and combinations, for it hath been made known unto me that they are had among all people,
Witchcraft Freemasonic Priestcraft LUCIFERCRAFT
www.paganlibrary.com/rituals_spells
/third_degree_initiation.php
www.paganlibrary.com/rituals_spells
/second_degree_initiation.php
www.paganlibrary.com/rituals_spells
/first_degree_initiation.php
Oh I Love This One,
"then I dust my sandal off before you becuase you have no interest in edifying with truth or the Holy Ghost!"
PLEASE SHOW ME THE LIES, It has always been about the truth, not Me.
then I dust my sandal off before you becuase you have no interest in edifying with truth or the Holy Ghost!
I polish my boots and shoes, brush my teeth and wish you GODs TRUTH, WORD and LOVE
Anonymous,
You said:
“Because I like to COPY & PASTE it is rather hard to say I am a LIAR, It is usually scriptures including
(LDS) or Mormon History with some "secular" Links.
PLEASE TELL THE LIES I am Waiting”
It has nothing to do with the things that you copy &paste, but has everything to do with your personal character. You are a liar, have been caught in lies, and continue to lie. It would be different if it were a matter of differing opinions, but you lie about what you claim to have experienced in order to win arguments. You are not a credible witness, so you messed it up for the side you represent. Because you lie about your personal experiences in order to back up what you claim is Truth, everything you say becomes invalid no matter how potentially true it ever was. The validity of your testimony stand or falls with your honesty about yourself.
“PLEASE SHOW ME THE LIES, It has always been about the truth, not Me.”
Why do you lie about God and the Holy Ghost in your life by making claims like:
“I have never Denied any promptings Of God or the Holy Ghost or any knowledge or Direction God Has given me in my Life. I have never Denied the Power of God or Godliness in my Life- So to whom, where and of which you speak you Know NOT. and you have Exposed your Self.”
And follow it with more lies about God and the Holy Ghost like:
“I am not to the Level of such an ONE as who claims to Walk and Talk with god, the son or holy ghost many hours"
“I am no prophet and I do not claim to Walk and Talk with a "god'.”
Why do you lie and say:
“I hope that you Now Understand that I am On a MISSION Now and Joseph Fielding Smith Gave me my Calling and so Did Bruce R McConkie
Please no do ask me to Leave my MISSION”
And follow it with:
“I am not "Called" and JFS and Bruce R”
Especially in this case, because these discussions are of a spiritual nature and you claim to be all about God’s truth, your lies really disqualify you.
You lie about your experiences with God.
You lie about your experiences with the Holy Ghost.
You lie about your loyalties to what others take as sacred, just to make fun of them.
I have spent a lot of effort to try to discuss issues with you. Previously my efforts were to encourage you to find the fulfillment you said you lacked by urging you to learn to receive God’s fullness through the Atonement of Jesus Christ and by the power of the Holy Ghost. The more I read your post, the more I noticed that within everything you copied & pasted, you would insert lies about yourself. Sometimes you would lie about the material, but usually you would lie about yourself.
You are a liar, plain and simple. What can I do with that? Even if you were pro-LDS, and continued to expose yourself as a liar, I don’t know what to do with that?
Sorry Guys:
I am deleting a couple posts. You guys can pull each other's fur out all you want. And you can debate the merits of Mormonism as hotly as you like, but I am not going to have here calling the prophets negative names, or such things as "the Mormon view of ___ is C__p."
I am not asking to to be civil, just not over the top obnoxious to me and the purposes of this blog.
Thank you,
David
Sorry David I was Quoting Michael it was a Paste and Copy of His Words, Not mine, He was inviting me to Debate in On Mormon Zion from His White Black Jewish point of View, I was responding, Sorry
I will Be more careful about about my Copy and Paste.
and I will keep trying to move it away from being Personal or offensive.
Your Mormon Zion attempts are XXXX too. Would you like me to pull out all of my Jewish resources?
Yes I would, Lets Take up That Topic. and just to let you know I was a Defender of the Faith, in my youth pre1978 we had a Hispanic Family Join the Ward and they were Baptized and Joined the priesthood (Pre 1978) it put everyone into a panic so our ward never told anyone- 1/18 or Just a drop was enough to say No. You know They were From Cuba and had curly Hair- YOU KNOW WHAT THAT meant. I we felt so shameful if we would have to tell the Something like Take their Priesthood away or "kick' out of our quorum, So instead we had our little ward cover up. And if I Had Known you are Black, I may have out of Sensitivity Came across on the Black subject a little more Gracefully, But I would have still brought it Up- a bit less Mocking of The Racist Comments of The Mormon Leaders-
I was Mocking the Racist not the Blacks.
So how does one Go from Being Defender to Apostate- Me
I could never take the Mormon Fall and the Two commands of contradiction NEVER Did ,Never Will,
I Have over 30 years of Research in Freemasonry and all of the connections to Mormonism- I see nothing but evil Gnostic Magick and an Imitation of Druid/Witchcraft- Those Death oaths are Not a Part of Jewish, Hebrew or Israeli HOLY Origin.
B.Young and the LDS style Polygamy is Not of God from my point of View-
And yes Mormons are Gnostic in the View of the Fall.
So once Again, In or out of the Church God can do anything with You- And I believe That some in the Mormon Leader-ship has tried their Best to Be Christian Leaders even Though they knew the Church was Not True-Well I seek the truth, I trust God, I have the courage to Let go and let God- Yes it would be Nice to say "I found the True Church" I have no new church, but I believe in God and Trust as best I can- I hold on to what little I have- Mormonism is a lot bigger than Me, so is Catholicism but that does not Make True,
4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever. I sure hope so
Anonymous,
You said:
“Because I like to COPY & PASTE it is rather hard to say I am a LIAR, It is usually scriptures including
(LDS) or Mormon History with some "secular" Links.
PLEASE TELL THE LIES I am Waiting”
It has nothing to do with the things that you copy &paste, but has everything to do with your personal character. You are a liar, have been caught in lies, and continue to lie. It would be different if it were a matter of differing opinions, but you lie about what you claim to have experienced in order to win arguments. You are not a credible witness, so you messed it up for the side you represent. Because you lie about your personal experiences in order to back up what you claim is Truth, everything you say becomes invalid no matter how potentially true it ever was. The validity of your testimony stand or falls with your honesty about yourself.
“PLEASE SHOW ME THE LIES, It has always been about the truth, not Me.”
Why do you lie about God and the Holy Ghost in your life by making claims like:
“I have never Denied any promptings Of God or the Holy Ghost or any knowledge or Direction God Has given me in my Life. I have never Denied the Power of God or Godliness in my Life- So to whom, where and of which you speak you Know NOT. and you have Exposed your Self.”
And follow it with more lies about God and the Holy Ghost like:
“I am not to the Level of such an ONE as who claims to Walk and Talk with god, the son or holy ghost many hours"
“I am no prophet and I do not claim to Walk and Talk with a "god'.”
Why do you lie and say:
“I hope that you Now Understand that I am On a MISSION Now and Joseph Fielding Smith Gave me my Calling and so Did Bruce R McConkie
Please no do ask me to Leave my MISSION”
And follow it with:
“I am not "Called" and JFS and Bruce R”
Especially in this case, because these discussions are of a spiritual nature and you claim to be all about God’s truth, your lies really disqualify you.
You lie about your experiences with God.
You lie about your experiences with the Holy Ghost.
You lie about your loyalties to what others take as sacred, just to make fun of them.
I have spent a lot of effort to try to discuss issues with you. Previously my efforts were to encourage you to find the fulfillment you said you lacked by urging you to learn to receive God’s fullness through the Atonement of Jesus Christ and by the power of the Holy Ghost. The more I read your post, the more I noticed that within everything you copied & pasted, you would insert lies about yourself. Sometimes you would lie about the material, but usually you would lie about yourself.
You are a liar, plain and simple. What can I do with that? Even if you were pro-LDS, and continued to expose yourself as a liar, I don’t know what to do with that?
Joseph Fielding Smith [Mormon Prophet] stated: "Mormonism, as it is called, must stand or fall on the story of Joseph Smith. He was either a prophet of God, divinely called, properly appointed and commissioned, or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. There is no middle ground."
"If Joseph Smith was a deceiver, who wilfully attempted to mislead the people, then he should be exposed; his claims should be refuted, and his doctrines shown to be false, . . ." (Bruce R. McConkie, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 188-9.)
Joseph Fielding Smith and Bruce R Mc Conkie gave That universal Call to all and NO they were not ordaining people to go on "missions", they (JSF-BRMC) have been resting for a Long time.
So of all the "DOCTRINE" that is what your claim makes me a Liar- "CALLING" what were you thinking? That SLC really sent me on a "Mission Call" in the Mail and that I went to the MTC -you are so silly- Did you really think that I was set apart and that I turn in my Numbers every week? Silly Silly
But here is something real
Is Polygamy still Required for Exaltation??
Was Joseph Smith a Freemason??
Is Freemasonry and Its Temple of the LODGE OF ST JOHN????
Is Freemasonry of the Lucifer/Cain/Tubal Cain RITE??
Is Freemasonry a Secret Combination, Priest Craft and has Many bits and portions of Witch craft??
Word for Word How much in % did Joseph Smith take from Freemasonry with Signs, Tokens, Grips, Passwords, an introduce into the Endowment??
Did Joseph Smith administer the LDS endowment in a Masonic Lodge??
Is there a true Historical line in Freemasonry Going back to the Temple of Solomon and to the tower of BABEL??
Why do Mormons Have The Gnostic View of the Fall.
Anonymous,
Sorry for being too unclear. I figured that you really hadn’t been set apart anyway. However, you have yet to answer this question that I bring up.
Anonymous VS Anonymous
In this corner donning the blue trunks:
“I have never Denied any promptings Of God or the Holy Ghost or any knowledge or Direction God Has given me in my Life. I have never Denied the Power of God or Godliness in my Life- So to whom, where and of which you speak you Know NOT. and you have Exposed your Self.”
VS
In this corner donning the black with gold stripe trunks:
“I am not to the Level of such an ONE as who claims to Walk and Talk with god, the son or holy ghost many hours"
“I am no prophet and I do not claim to Walk and Talk with a "god'.”
Why is your own personal witness about your personal spiritual experiences conflicting? Either one is right and one is wrong, or both are wrong. Both are not right. It seems that you are willing to lie about personal spiritual experiences in order to win arguments. I can’t really deal with that. I always try to be honest with you and everyone.
Either way, I may come back and read your response, but I am done here.
My original reason for stopping by was to have “A discussion of Mormonism, the Temple, Mormon Mysticism, Jewish Mysticism, and the meaning of life”. I guess that isn’t going to happen.
I really hope and pray that you get the things figured out that you said have been bothering you. I truly do desire that you are able to receive of God’s fullness through the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Ghost. If you are already on that path and are just trying to work out the wrinkles, then I wish you the best. If you are not on that path, I pray that you find it and are eventually able to receive a fullness of joy.
Just incase you forgot I mentioned I would keep my comments inside of the "HOUSEKEEPING" section so as not to pollute the other Sections and Post unless I wanted to make a Comment, furthermore I have invited you or anyone else NOT to comment or respond to me,
Also I had tried to deal in "real" issues looking for intelligent answers not personal attacks.
I have tried not to make this personal-unless responding- I feel bad about the Black Mormon stuff
But I did not create It and it is Mormon History-
Let me tell you that I am a Husband and a Father.
Having Said that I tell you a True story about one of my Best friends (ROBERTO) who was Black and died of AIDS, He was of rather high intellect and well educated- And if you think I go at it with you you Have not seen anything as Compared to our little spats- but for Roberto he was Dying and needed something to hold onto and in a challenging manner invited me to give he something he could challenge or be challenged by?????? Hymmmmmmm??????
Not the Book of Mormon--- NOT the D&C or PGOGP
He already had a Bible- He was Black and Proud and would not embrace all the White, Delightsome and Pure- stuff or the Dark Black Loathsome Cursed stuff either- So in my best efforts I Gave him a very special Book, a Hard Book, especially for someone who had been Gay at onetime in his Life and was answering deaths call for that Sin- Roberto received peace in his soul, thru our prayers together and thanks to Spencer W. Kimbal and His Book the Miracle of Forgiveness- Robert died in peace and at peace with God- So let me say this to you in or out of the Church I have my dealing with God.
If I tell you I am not a Prophet or Apostle or Have not received Exaltation with calling and Election made Sure- I have not received the Second witness you want to make a Personal Attack- I am Not a Seer or a Revelator - you attack me- I do not attack anyone except in where I from my lowly secular position see departures from "my" view away from truth and history or Changes or contradictions-
I have tried to keep It to the Issues- not personal-
I will be judged of no Man, God will Judge Me-
and no You do not know God's dealings with me-
And you should not Judge the acts of the HOLY GHOST.
I have never Made a " thus saith the LORD" or pretended to speak in the Name of the LORD on this Post except Once-
Prepare ye Prepare ye, to behold the Lion to defend His people,and thrash among the enemies of the Lord, the Lord's people went forward into battle and the Lord's sword is now drawn.
God will take up this battle and lay waste the Evil in the land, pray grace and mercy for the Evil that they may repent, for a heavy Judgement is about to fall on this land, separate yourself from the evil and stand in Holy places that you partake not of the Plagues.
No it was not a Revelation or prophecy- But an expression of my soul of the Great beginnings of the curse we are receiving- point being that I believe that God has again placed his Sword of Truth into the fight- Judgement is in the Making- the time of Mercy is Closing- Time to take a Stand- and to Stand in Holy Places- I see Freemasonry as one of the Great secret Combinations and Stand Against It-
and out of it.
So Michael I also leave you this Blessing that God may Find us on HIS side in a Holy Place- Also I send you a special Blessing Gift, and Blessing of Peace- It is from God- in or of the church.
Somebody D.T. Said-There's no Masons in your closet waiting to murder you and take your things. And there's none in mine.??????????????????
The US Capitol is not simply another governmental building. It is the spiritual center of the United States. Its structure, its art and its symbols all reveal the great importance of secret Fraternities in the shaping of the world most powerful government. We’ll explore the Capitol and discover the features that make this building a Masonic site, an American Temple of Solomon.------http://theilluminatiwatch.com/tag/manzini/
Washington DC was carefully laid out in accordance to ancient occult principles. The Capitol is a vital part of the design by its location and its shape. The Capitol’s most important feature is of course its massive dome which carries heavy symbolic meaning, as we’ll see later. This dome faces the Washington Monument, the 555.5 foot tall (6666 inches) replica of an Egyptian obelisk. This layout is strikingly similar to St.Peter’s Square in the Vatican, where an obelisk faces a giant dome.
An apotheosis can be defined as the EXALTATION of a subject to divine level. In other words, this painting depicts the elevation of George Washington to a god-man status, like Jesus Christ. He is shown seated on a rainbow and behind him is the gateway, the vortex, the sungate to the heavens (the spirit world). As stated above, the dome esoterically represents the womb giver of life. Washington is about to exit the womb of the dome to experience rebirth as an immortal god. William Henry has appropriately noted that Jesus Christ’s divinity was portrayed in a similar way in ancient religious art......
And you all Thought that EXALTATION was a MORMON thing
http://theilluminatiwatch.com/tag/manzini/
Eph. 2: 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Romans 5: 15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
WHAT IS GNOSTICISM
The esoteric teachings of those Orders explain that a spark of divinity lies dormant within each person. This inner-godliness can be awakened through rigorous intellectual and spiritual training and the mastering of occult arts. The result of a successful training is the birth of perfected man, a Christ, a god-man. Rosicrucians believe that Jesus Christ’s teachings, like Buddha’s, show the path to the spiritual reform that one must undertake to attain illumination. George Washington, as a 33rd degree Mason has reached this EXALTED level.
EXALTATION Mormon Mason Different??????????
http://theilluminatiwatch.com/tag/manzini/
"Freemasonry is not Christianity, nor a substitute for it. It does not meddle with sectarian creeds or doctrines, but teaches fundamental religious truth." (Albert G. Mackey, "Encyclopedia of Freemasonry," page 162)
"Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be misled; to conceal the Truth, which it calls Light, from them, and to draw them away from it." (Albert Pike, "Morals and Dogma," page 104)
AS do Mormons almost the SAME ENDOWMENT
"Drop the theological barnacles [timeless Biblical truths] from the religion of Jesus, as taught by Him, and by the Essenes and Gnostics of the first centuries, and it becomes Masonry, Masonry in its purity, derived as it is from the old Hebrew Kaballa as a part of the great universal religion of the remotest antiquity." (J. D. Buck, "Mystic Masonry," page 119)
On the surface, Freemasonry (MORMONISM) looks wholesome. There is fellowship, loyalty, and the support of good causes such as burn units in hospitals. The masonic motto is "Making good men better". (Mor-Mon= Good Man- Translation by Joseph Smith,from Reformed Egyptian?)
Few men understand what they are getting into when they become Masons(ENDOWMENT MORMONS). Most Masons join because they trust friends, family members, or church members who invite them. Others join for business connections or political votes. Some men join because of masonic charities. Most men who join have no idea that, during their initiation, they will be required to make solemn blood oaths.
www.crossroad.to/articles2/006/freemasons.htm
American Freemasonry includes local Lodges, Scottish Rite Temples, York Rite, and the Shriners. Prince Hall is a masonic order for BLACK men.
PRINCE HALL NOT FREE AND ACCEPTED
Masons/Mormons take blood oaths, but are told that they are only symbolic. They participate in rituals that they don't understand, assuming that they must be alright because their masonic friends have done it.------- This sounds like Church----------Even a Thirty-Second Degree Mason or (3rd DegreeMormon) will have limited understanding unless he studies the Secret Doctrine and the writings of the Princes and Adepts of Masonry. It is difficult for a man to turn away from Freemasonry because of the many blood oaths which he has made in order to obtain his degrees(EXALTATION MORMON). Furthermore, he has invested a lot of time, effort and money into MormonismMasonry, and many of his friendships and business (FAMILY) connections are with fellow MasonsMormons.
Qabalah-mother of FREMASONRY
(Kaballa can also be spelled Kaballah, Kabala or Cabala.) Webster's dictionary defines it as:
"1. A kind or system of occult theosophy or mystial interpretation of the Scriptures among Jewish rabbis and certain medieval Christians. 2. Secret or esoteric doctrine or science, in general; occultism; mystic art; mystery." ("Webster's Collegiate Dictionary," Fifth Edition, 1947)The following definitions give clarity to the above definition of the Kaballa:
"Occult. Of, pertaining to, concerned with, or designating alchemy, magic, astrology and other arts and practices involving use of divination, incantation, magical formulae, etc." ("Webster's Collegiate Dictionary," Fifth Edition, 1947)
"Occultism. Occult theory or practice; belief in hidden or mysterious powers and the possibility of human control of them." ("Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, Fifth Edition, 1947)
Albert Pike also stresses the fundamental importance of the Kaballa to Freemasonry:
"All truly dogmatic religions have issued from the Kaballah and return to it; everything scientific and grand in the religious dreams of all the Illuminati, Jacob Boeheme, Swedenborg, Saint Martin,(JOSEPH SMITH) and others, is borrowed from the Kabalah; all Masonic associations owe to it their Secrets and their Symbols." (Albert Pike, "Morals and Dogma," page 744) The MYSTERY OF MORMONISM-MYSTICISM OF MORMONISM
www.crossroad.to/articles2/006/freemasons.htm
CHRIST-MASS? LUCIFERS BIRTHDAY we worship Lucifer in the Name of Jesus Christ On the Days of the Equinoxes-Dec 25, March 21, June 24, Sept 21
The 4 Quarters of the Seasons, The Watches and the Gate Keepers of the Four directions-
God is a Jealous God- He knows if you are sleeping he know if your awake, he knows if you are good or bad so be good for goodness sake. And yes SUNDAY too
NOT the SON'S day But the Worship of the SUN on the SUN's day. Yea SUNDAY.
By your traditions You make void the WORD of GOD
SUN worship is Lucifer worship- In Manner- Style- Fashion-Ritual-Design-Merryness-Day-Date-Parades,--- Yes I know you think you know better,
BUT you still celebrate the HOLY DAY of the Devil on Dec 25th - You cannot resist Those days of tradition You justify your adornments-
Jer 3:13 Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the Lord thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the Lord.
Jer 2:20 ¶For of old time I have broken thy yoke, and burst thy bands; and thou saidst, I will not transgress; when upon every high hill and under every green tree thou wanderest, playing the harlot.
ChristianDumb is The Harlot and has embrased Lucifer and has learned the way of the Heathen, All in the name of sacrificing the TRUTH in exchange for adding Sheeple to the Fold.
Jer 10: 2 Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
OH CHRIST-MASS TREE
Don't you Just love the Spirit Of X-mass or is it the Spirit of Lucifer- SUN WORSHIP or SON WORSHIP????
Truth it kind of Gets in the way every now and then.
Seems a Red Old Man has all the powers of a god-
Dear Old St NICK the RED MAN -Jolly ???????
Old Nick –nounInformal.the devil; Satan.Origin:1660–70
Old Nick —n informal a jocular name for Satan
Red Man : The demon of the tempests. He is supposed to be furious when the rash voyager intrudes on his solitude, and to show his anger in the winds and storms. The French peasants believed that a mysterious little red man appeared to Napoleon to announce coming reverses.
Verse 6: But this thou hast (in thy favour), that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes which I (Christ) ALSO HATE.
Verse 15: So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes (the followers of St.Nicholas - Santa Claus), which thing I (Christ) HATE.
The Nicolaitans celebrate Yule-tide (Christmas now) and Santa Claus (st. Nicholas) and decorate trees with silver, which thing Christ HATES, because it is Satanic and NOT from God or Christ, as he makes perfectly clear in the verses above.
SANTA CLAUS WEARS SCARLET which Christ has told us is SATAN'S COLOUR (see Revelations chapter 12 verses 3+9 - the great RED dragon - SATAN).
SANTA CLAUS is an anagram for SATAN.
SATAN LUCAS/LUCIFER - THE DEVIL.
There is nothing Godly about Christmas and Christ HATES it; so how can christians celebrate it? Who taught them to do so? Certainly NOT Christ or his apostles.
A true Christian would be one who follows Christ's Way, does what He did, loves what He loved and hates what he hates - he would not imagine or theorize on what Christ would like or not like.
HO HO HO WHAT DO YOU KNOW
Up on the house TOP click click click down thru the chimney OLD SAINT NICK-SATAN-CLAUSE or is it SANTA-CLAWS or SATAN CLAWS??????Santa is referred to as "the children¹s Christmas deity," but we all know that Santa Claus is not really the Christkindel. Then what deity is he? Another of Santa¹s names is Saint Nicholas, and an archaic name for the Devil is "old Nick," viz. jolly old Saint Nick. He swore to pose as God, and to sit upon his throne in the north. Santa is an anagram, can you figure it out?
The idea of Santa Claus riding through the sky in a sleigh drawn by reindeer may have been derived from ancient sun-god myths. The pagan god Mithra rode through the sky in the mule-drawn chariot of the sun-god. He passed through the underworld at night. Is Santa Claus the image of Mithra?
It is this principle that lies at the belief system of Santa Claus, S-A-N-T-A with a juggle of letters
spells...S-A-T-A-N!!! Just a coincidence? What about Claus? C-L-A-U-S with a juggle spells...L-U-C-A-S. Lucas is considered a short term for Lucifer by those who worship Satan. This is to be confirmed in that 1929 a then already strong New Age organization which called itself Lucifer Trust was changed to Lucas Trust. Why? Deception!!! SANTA CLAUS = SATAN LUCAS. I'm sure that the Devil is very pleased with his deception, but God is not!
Well I think you need to read the sanity clause.
I am sure that the Brethren will do all of our Thinking for us. Is it not great that we can put our Brains on the shelf and just play follow the leader?
It is a rather comfortable way to live Just let SLC do all of our thinking for us, and well we have our Temples and books, we know we are Holy and in Nothing can we offend God- Because we think we know Better, that we are excused in Partaking of the Things of Babylon and Pagan worship? Is it because the Church is True we are excused in our actions? Are we already too Holy that we Know we cannot Sin.
Regardless of what Christian teachers may tell you, Christmas was NOT a part of what the early United States of America stood for. The first 13 American Colonies all had laws against this satanic observance, and their faith in the Messiah was the basis for it. One would be fined and/or imprisoned for observing Christmas, because the early American settlers understood that this practice was one of popery's strongest promotions, and that it's origins were PAGAN (therefore satanic). (Popery is tyrannical Nimrodism, and this can be proven to anyone from the book by Alexander Hislop, The Two Babylons. Remember the account of George Washington "crossing the Delaware"? This was the day of the first successful battle in favor of the Colonies, against the Anglican / Catholic British. The enemy army was encamped across the Delaware, and George attacked with his men early in the morning and won the battle -- on CHRISTMAS DAY. The enemy had been celebrating all night, and were in a stupor. The surprise attack caught them off guard, big time.
So, when you hear a Christian talk-show host or a preacher whining about how sad it is that "Christmas" is so secularized -- or that Christians are being deprived of their rights by not being allowed to put up a decoration on public property -- or have a public school play celebrating the birth of "Jesus" (Yahushua ha Mashiach) at this time of year, remember whose birthday it really is, and try to let them know. Not many are bold enough to come out and tell them, but one day the whole Earth will know the Truth, and the Truth will set them free. Traditions come and go; the Truth will never change. If people choose something as "qodesh" (set-apart), they've added to the Torah. What they've chosen to be special doesn't have any bearing whatsoever on what YHWH has established as special to Him. And, He has established observances, which most of mankind chooses to be worthless and "old". Yet, what mankind does honor only reminds YHWH of what He had warned them NOT to observe, even if intended for Him (Dt. 12:28-32).
Different Anonymous (new guy)
Man trying to post on here is a real circus!
Like the research on Christmas. I get turned off by the whole Santa Claus thing too. Whatever the date is, we are suppose to be celebrating Jesus’ birthday anyway right? People can always say that it is better to give than to receive. But it is even better to not place justifying “self-righteous” behavior (giving), above celebrating Christ’s birth on the designated day. No righteous acts of man are adequate to replace the Savior of the world. But that is what we practice at Christmas time, because of the whole Santa thing.
I was reading this book by a Jewish Rabbi turned Mormon. He had some cool stuff to say about the whole Santa/Satan thing too.
He mentions that the Hebrew letter that was translated as 666 in the Greek version of Revelation was really the Hebrew equivalent of WWW. Being that it is given three times and associated with Satan, it shares similar patterns with scriptures mentioning “wo, wo, wo.”
“Thus wherever it says “Wo” in the scriptures, it literally means the devil, and figuratively a cursing, and therefore it is usually followed by the word “unto.” This all rings true if one continues reading 3 Nephi 9”2 where the Lord says after all the destruction: “Wo Wo Wo unto this people; wo unto the inhabitants of the whole earth except they shall repent: for the devil laugheth and his angels rejoice” (compare Rev. 12:12). Therefore, Wo, or stronger yet, Wo Wo Wo is a proclamation by the Lord to the people of the world to repent and be righteous or else they will be in Satan’s power. Comparatively Santa, a dyslexic form of Satan and an imposter of the Lord Jesus Christ, says, “Ho Ho Ho,” but this means “eat, drink, and be merry” (David B. Cohen, M. D. and Irving H. Cohen, D. D. S., Spiritual Vision Hebrew Cryptograms: The key to unlocking parallels between Mormonism and Judaism, p. 46).
“Christmas is another twisted religious holiday. It commemorates the Lord’s birth, yet the Lord’s birthday is not on December 25th, but April 6th (D&C 20:1). Moreover, Satan loves the fact that Santa, a dyslexic form of Satan, gets more attention than the Lord. (Another example of satanic twisting is Zion and Nazi.)” (David B. Cohen, M. D. and Irving H. Cohen, D. D. S., Spiritual Vision Hebrew Cryptograms: The key to unlocking parallels between Mormonism and Judaism, p. 124).
I am just grateful that the true spirit of Christ’s birth celebration draws us to Him (the reason for the season). “Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things. For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;”
I love the next verse:
“Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ”(Titus 2:10 - 13).
Who else can answer this verse, and its pointing to the glorious appearance of God and Jesus?
“But, exerting all my powers to call upon God to deliver me out of the power of this enemy which had seized upon me, and at the very moment when I was ready to sink into despair and abandon myself to destruction—not to an imaginary ruin, but to the power of some actual being from the unseen world, who had such marvelous power as I had never before felt in any being—just at this moment of great alarm, I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me. It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him! (JS-History 1:16 - 17)
That truly is all we can do when the power of the enemy has us ready to sink into despair. Receive deliverance from God through the power of His Beloved Son.
I know that Dec. 25 ain’t really Jesus birthday, but I’ll praise Him and shout “Happy Birthday Jesus,” before I honor Satan’s attempts to capitalize on “holy days” with distractive nonsense. Happy Birthday Jesus, Glory to the Lord, Praise God!
The Jews know what Dec. 25 th is all about and it has NOTHING to do with "and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS (JEHOVAH the SAVIOR): for he shall save his people from their sins.
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Because most of Christiandumb plays the Harlot with the false "god' Nimrod and the Worship of the New Born Sun (equinoxes) How could those Who are to Shine with the Light of Messiah, Worship Lucifer?
How could Christians ever Invite Jews to Worship Christ when they Party like a Pagan, In Pagan custom, Manner, Day, Date, Rite, Fashion?
Christians have Played the Harlot and the Jews Know IT. and yes it does make a difference!!!!!!!!
Anonymii
You both seem a bit caught up more in processes than in outcomes.
Though I definetly agree that Santa has nothing to do with Christmas. Whether some atheist invented it as a joke against those believing in Christ I wouldn't know. And it doesn't really matter a cracker. What matters is that people are having their focus set somewhere other than on Jesus Christ.
Arguments about whether Christ was born on 25th Dec are pointless from the perspective of getting people to think about Christ once a year. I couldn't care if they did it on Bob Hope's birthday or Attilla the Hun's birthday. It really doesn't matter.
(New) Anonymous
Naw, I was just saying that the Devil is relentless in his efforts to use seemingly enjoyable things to distract us from focusing on the true meaning of Jesus. Like using the whole idea of respecting children’s beliefs in Santa Claus, to feeling justified by saying that it is better to give than to receive.
Jesus loves little children, and it was the “Lord Jesus, [who] said, It is more blessed to give than to receive” (Acts 20:35). However, Jesus also taught the higher truth that “He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me” (Matthew 10:37). Jesus also taught, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him” (John 13:16). If the servant is not greater than his lord, then neither is the commandment greater than He who gave it.
Anything, no matter how good it is, that is promoted as an adequate substitute for Christ becomes anti-Christ by how it is used.
Even back when “the LORD said unto Moses, Go unto the people, and sanctify them to day and to morrow, and let them wash their clothes, And be ready against the third day: for the third day the LORD will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai” (Exodus 19:10 - 11)…
But the people rejected this invitation by saying to Moses, “Go thou near, and hear all that the LORD our God shall say: and speak thou unto us all that the LORD our God shall speak unto thee; and we will hear it, and do it” (Deuteronomy 5:27).
So often today people will choose seemingly good things, even commandments, as an excuse not to get to know God and worship Him as the greatest of all.
Some people think that Santa Claus, Frosty, Rudolph, the Easter bunny, and all that stuff are innocent and acceptable. I however, believe that Satan orchestrates a whole lot more than we give him credit for, and evidences of it can be found, just as evidence can be found to support the work of God.
But regardless of the particulars, I think we both agree that the focus should be on THE TRUE MEANING OF JESUS, and how we can apply that full meaning in our lives.
The Greatest Day of deception and Turning from the Truth DEC 25th The Celebration of Lucifer/Satan as symbolized by the Sun-Sun Worship is Paganized Lucifer worship. It is Found in all Sun God countries and Sun worship Times- Now how do we try to Justify Worshiping Lucifer in the Name of Jesus Christ- Really the ONLY thing that Has Changed or Has Been Exchanged is a Gift to Lucifer of Exchanging the NAME Jesus Christ for Lucifer- The rest of it Has Not changed Much.
The answer lies in the pagan origins of Christmas. In ancient Babylon, the feast of the Son of Isis (Goddess of Nature) was celebrated on December 25. Raucous partying, gluttonous eating and drinking, and gift-giving were traditions of this feast. In Rome, the Winter Solstice was celebrated many years before the birth of Christ. The Romans called their winter holiday Saturnalia, honoring Saturn, the God of Agriculture. In January, they observed the Kalends of January, which represented the triumph of life over death. This whole season was called Dies Natalis Invicti Solis, the Birthday of the Unconquered Sun. The festival season was marked by much merrymaking. It is in ancient Rome that the tradition of the Mummers was born. The Mummers were groups of costumed singers and dancers who traveled from house to house entertaining their neighbors. From this, the Christmas tradition of caroling was born.
In northern Europe, many other traditions that we now consider part of Christian worship were begun long before the participants had ever heard of Christ. The pagans of northern Europe celebrated the their own winter solstice, known as Yule. Yule was symbolic of the pagan Sun God, Mithras, being born, and was observed on the shortest day of the year. As the Sun God grew and matured, the days became longer and warmer. It was customary to light a candle to encourage Mithras, and the sun, to reappear next year.
Christmas Trees At Church? Christmas Lights on TEMPLES -HOUSE OF THE LORD ?
HOLINESS TO THE LORD?
CHRIST-MASS ? Since when do MORMONS do MASS?
Who's Day and Which Lord????
I am sure Christ-mass is Good and From GOD because Mormons would not celebrate Something Bad, I Know that the Brethren would not allow us to Stray and celebrate Lucifer's Birthday??? I am sure it is Good in fact God has Christ-Mass lights on his House? The Temple? Lighting Celebrations?
We Join in with Christ-mass Fire-Sides Singing Christ-mass Songs, The Mormon Tabernacle Choir
Sings From TEMPLE SQUARE with our Prophets and Apostles wishing us the TRUE spirit of The MASS of Christ to be with US???? Why let the truth get in the WAY of a good Story? Is GOD pleased that we On the Universal Day of The Birthday of the Sun that we call it The Birthday of HIS Son? WHO's DAY? WHO's SUN?
Many of our modern Christmas traditions began hundreds of years before Christ was born. Some of these traditions date back more than 4000 years. The addition of Christ to the celebration of the winter solstice did not occur until 300 years after Christ died and as late as 1800, some devout Christian sects, like the Puritans, forbade their members from celebrating Christmas because it was considered a pagan holiday. WAKE UP ROMAN TRANCE-Even the date of Christmas, December 25, was borrowed from another religion. At the time Christmas was created in AD 320, Mithraism was very popular. The early Christian church had gotten tired of their futile efforts to stop people celebrating the solstice and the birthday of Mithras, the Persian sun god. Mithras’ birthday was December 25.
Think about it! Can we worship and honor God by involving ourselves with customs and traditions, which God Himself forbade as idolatry? Can we convince God to somehow "Christianize" these customs and the whole pretense and lie of Christmas, so we can enjoy ourselves? Can we obey through disobedience?
Jews must really look at "Christians' with Dis-Grace
Because of Christian worship of Lucifer or Osiris or Babylon
http://paganizingfaithofyeshua.netfirms.com
/examples_dec_25_births.htm
www.heavingdeadcats.com/2009/11/30/what-other-deities-were-born-on-jesus-birthday/
Horus (c. 3000 BCE)
Osiris (c. 3000 BCE)
Attis of Phrygia (c.1400 BCE)
Krishna (c. 1400 BCE)
Zoroaster/Zarathustra (c. 1000 BCE)
Mithra of Persia (c. 600 BCE)
Heracles (c. 800 BCE)
Dionysus (c. 186 BCE)
Tammuz (c. 400 BCE)
Adonis (c. 200 BCE)
Hermes
Bacchus
Prometheus
A busy day in the life of the gods!
And Now JESUS CHRIST?????????
http://unreasonablefaith.com/2008/12/26/other-deities-not-born-on-dec-25/
Let the Truth Stand Independent!!!!!!!!!!! If you CAN
A friend of mine told me to check out this blog. Everything on the front page seemed to be lacking any real mystical theme or approach. No criticism, just a comment. However, I read a few of the old posts from certain of the “categories” section to see how they would fare. Some pretty good material so far. My friend said the book was really good, so I will have to try to squeeze it into my Christmas break.
I like this discussion on the way the Christmas celebration has developed over the years. I love having every detail on both sides of the coin. It really helps to bring out the good flavors of the study.
1. On the surface it may seem innocent to blend or build on common belief, in hopes to have peaceful relations among differing cultures. “And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven” (Colossians 1:20). The subject at hand certainly falls into the category of “all things”. However we must make sure that what is taking place is actually part of Christ reconciling all things unto Himself through the blood of His cross, and not some other way.
2. As some of the previous bloggers have pointed out, the current mainstream Christmas celebration seems to allegorically be reminiscent of such scriptural teachings as:
“No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment, for that which is put in to fill it up taketh from the garment, and the rent is made worse. Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved” (Matthew 9:16 - 17).
“Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sorts, as of woollen and linen together” (Deuteronomy 22:11).
“Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee” (Leviticus 19:19). (Footnote in LDS edition: Note that these laws are in harmony with the other admonitions to keep things pure and in proper use.)
“That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well” (Acts 15:29).
However Paul taught:
“Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled. But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse. But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols; And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend” (1 Corinthians 8:7 - 13)
3. Looking even deeper, we can discover a key within symbols, to unlock even more truth. All four Standard Works teach of the tree of “forbidden fruit in opposition to the tree of life” (2 Nephi 2:15). Our current mainstream Christmas celebration has two trees. The first, being the tree of life. “And [angel] said unto me: Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh. And it came to pass that I beheld that she was carried away in the Spirit; and after she had been carried away in the Spirit for the space of a time the angel spake unto me, saying: Look! And I looked and beheld the virgin again, bearing a child in her arms. And the angel said unto me: Behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the Son of the Eternal Father! Knowest thou the meaning of the tree which thy father saw? And I answered him, saying: Yea, it is the love of God, which sheddeth itself abroad in the hearts of the children of men; wherefore, it is the most desirable above all things. And he spake unto me, saying: Yea, and the most joyous to the soul. And after he had said these words, he said unto me: Look! And I looked, and I beheld the Son of God going forth among the children of men; and I saw many fall down at his feet and worship him. And it came to pass that I beheld that the rod of iron, which my father had seen, was the word of God, which led to the fountain of living waters, or to the tree of life; which waters are a representation of the love of God; and I also beheld that the tree of life was a representation of the love of God” (1 Nephi 11:18 - 25). This dream depicts the Christmas story, and the tree of life as the true Christmas tree. Lehi’s original dream (1 Nephi 8) portrays a loving father beckoning to his children to come partake of the fruit of the love of God, which hung from a tree, which is desirable above all other fruit. We know that Jesus hung from a tree (Acts 5:30, 10:39, Galatians 3:13), and was the epitome of the love of God (John 3:16).
The second tree, is the decorated evergreen coniferous tree. "The Christmas tree, now so common among us, was equally common in Pagan Rome and Pagan Egypt. In Egypt that tree was the palm tree; in Rome it was the fir; the palm tree denoting the Pagan Messiah, as Baal-Tamar, the fir referring to him as Baal-Berith. The mother of Adonis, the Sun-God and great mediatorial divinity, was mystically said to have been changed into a tree, and when in that state to have brought forth her divine son. If the mother was a tree, the son must have been recognized as the 'Man the branch.' And this entirely accounts for the putting of the Yule Log into the fire on Christmas Eve, and the appearance of the Christmas tree the next morning" (Alexander Hislop, The Two Babylons, p. 97). "The Christmas tree...recapitulates the idea of tree worship...gilded nuts and balls symbolizing the sun...all the festivities of the [heathen] winter solstice have been absorbed into Christmas Day...the use of holly and mistletoe to the Druidic ceremonies; the Christmas tree to the honours paid to Odin's sacred fir...." (Ethel L Urlin, Festivals, Holy Days, and Saints’ Days, p. 236). Jeremiah prophesied about such trees. “HEAR ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good. Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O LORD; thou art great, and thy name is great in might” (Jeremiah 10:1-6). Do both trees symbolize the love of God? Are both trees associated with the birth and Atonement of Jesus Christ? Can the ornaments/fruit which hangs from both trees provide actual experiences where the recipient is able to declare, “And as I partook of the fruit thereof it filled my soul with exceedingly great joy” (1 Nephi 8:12)? (Last time I ate a Christmas tree ornament, I got a mouth full of broken glass!). Do both trees lead to contact with God, personal revelation, and the exalted encouragement that comes through proper usage of the Atonement to approach God?
4. Now to the deepest level. What can the two trees help us accomplish, or obtain, by way of the theosophical or mystical experience? What is the theosophical or mystical experience anyway? Kabbalist Rav Michael Laitman “teaches about the cause-and-effect connection between spiritual sources that unite according to absolute laws into one exalted goal: the attainment of the Creator by the created beings existing in this world” (Michael Laitman, Basic Concepts in Kabbalah, ch. 1. Online version). “They [Kabbalists] find pleasure from the contact with Him back to Him!” (Michael Laitman, The Path of Kabbalah, p. 263). Again, the mystical or theosophical purpose is “to achieve Dvekut (adhesion) with the Creator, meaning equivalence of form” (Michael Laitman, Purpose of Society, p. 1). “The intention to attain the purpose of his existence, to sense the Creator, and to unite with Him must be authentic. It is the only reason for doing anything” (Michael Laitman, The Path of Kabbalah, p. 148). This is the very goal of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and should be the very goal of its members. “God is our Father, and a medium of communication has been opened between God and us; and inasmuch as we live our religion we shall be prepared at all times to receive blessings at his hands, and learn to understand correct principles in regard to our salvation as individuals, and the salvation of the human family” (John Taylor, Deseret News (Weekly), 8 Feb. 1860, 386). “The gospel is calculated to lead us on from truth to truth and from intelligence to intelligence, until that scripture will be fulfilled which declares that we shall see as we are seen and know as we are known [see D&C 76:94], until one will not have to say to another, know ye the Lord, but all shall know Him from the least unto the greatest [see Jeremiah 31:34], until the light and intelligence of God shall beam forth upon all, and all shall bask in the sunlight of eternal truth” (John Taylor, Deseret News: Semi-Weekly, 16 May 1866, 2). “He has organized this Church in order that we may be educated in the principles of life, that we may comprehend those principles that exist in the bosom of God, that we may be able to teach our children correct principles, in order that we may be placed in a position whereby we can be assimilated in the likeness of our heavenly Father” (John Taylor, Deseret News: Semi-Weekly, 1 June 1880, 1).
“It is for the exaltation of man to this state of superior intelligence and Godhead that the mediation and atonement of Jesus Christ is instituted; and that noble being, man, made in the image of God, is rendered capable not only of being a son of man, but also a son of God, … and is rendered capable of becoming a God, possessing the power, the majesty, the exaltation and the position of a God. As it is written, “Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is” (1 John 3:2). (John Taylor, The Mediation and Atonement (1882), 139–41). So then, how can the two trees help us accomplish adhesion with God, by means of manifestation through His Son? Let’s look at how the two trees are symbols of our desires. “In other words, the initial desire to enjoy was split into two parts: one remained the same in its properties (to receive) while the other acquired the attributes of the Creator, i.e., drew closer to Him, merged with Him” (Michael Laitman, Basic Concepts in Kabbalah, ch. 10. Online version). The decorated evergreen coniferous tree is the center of our desires to receive. “I can’t wait to see what I have got (material items) under the tree!” Jesus taught, “For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul”(Matthew 16:25 - 26)? What do we stand to lose by putting our trust in the value of the coniferous Christmas tree? “What profiteth the graven image that the maker thereof hath graven it; the molten image, and a teacher of lies, that the maker of his work trusteth therein, to make dumb idols” (Habakkuk 2:18)? The evergreen coniferous cannot speak, it is not the epitome of God’s love, it cannot fill us with pure and perfect love, it cannot pour out divine grace upon us, it cannot reveal God to us, or help us to become assimilated into His likeness by actually gaining adhesion with Him.
Its hanging ornaments do not represent the Savior of the world upon the cross, nor do they possess the power to split the veil between man and God through the Atoning Sacrifice. This tree is the symbol of egoism, by giving and receiving to fulfill personal pleasure. Through it we lose our connection and worship of God, to do our best on a temporal level. We could try to use it as part of a ritual to gain greater access to God’s presence, but will not succeed. The real tree of Christmas, the Tree of Life/Cross of Jesus, possesses ornaments that represent progression through the emanations of God’s perfection down to man’s fallen condition (Etz Chayim). “I also beheld that the tree of life was a representation of the love of God. And the angel said unto me again: Look and behold the condescension of God” (1 Nephi 11:25 - 26)! As Jesus hung from the tree, He provided the only way in which we would be able to partake of the fullness of God’s love for us—to be one with Him, whole, finished, complete! Of this fruit Jesus taught: “And ye see that I have commanded that none of you should go away, but rather have commanded that ye should come unto me, that ye might feel and see; even so shall ye do unto the world; and whosoever breaketh this commandment suffereth himself to be led into temptation” (3 Nephi 18:25). “That is why Kabbalists always say, ‘Taste and see that the Lord is good’” (Michael Laitman, The Path of Kabbalah, p. 210).
I suppose at Mormon Mysticism, the mystical answer should suffice? It is the mystics “intention to attain the purpose of his existence, to sense the Creator, and to unite with Him [and it] must be authentic. It is the only reason for doing anything” (Michael Laitman, The Path of Kabbalah, p. 148).
“Truth, eternal truth, is the groundwork of the Christian’s hope: it is the only sure rock on which he can build. Forsaking that to support some favourite dogma, he falls into the mazes of infidelity, scepticism, error, and delusion, and is on the highway to destruction. The power of God will always attend those who love the truth and keep it” (John Taylor, K. Groves, Three Nights’ Public Discussion between the Revds. C. W. Cleeve, James Robertson, and Philip Later, and Elder John Taylor, of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (1850), 28).
Wow
There are NOT two Christ-Mass trees, just one Satanic Erection-Osiris was cut into 13 parts-All of Osiris's Parts we found but One-Guess which one?
Any way a tree grew in it's Place-
Enjoy that Tree
HO HO HO
One Christmas season, when our oldest daughter was around eight and still a “believer” in the myth of the Jolly Old Elf, she innocently asked me, “Is Santa Claus a Mormon?”
www.i4m.com/think/comments/mormon_santa.htm
Uneasily, I tried avoiding answering her question, but it was clear that our daughter was viewing Santa Claus as a member of God’s true church. Even for someone like myself who back then was still mired in the Mormon faith, I hoped to encourage a wider, more ecumenical world view when it came to judging the world's little boys and girls.
www.mormonwiki.com/Temple_endowment
There are men who object to Santa Claus, because he does not exist! Such men need spectacles to see that Santa Claus is a symbol; a symbol of the love and joy of Christmas and the Christmas spirit. In the land of my birth there was no Santa Claus, but a little goat was shoved into the room, carrying with it a basket of Christmas toys and gifts. The goat of itself counted for nothing; but the Christmas spirit, which it symbolized, counted for a tremendous lot.
http://new.music.yahoo.com/mormon-tabernacle-choir/tracks/santa-claus-is-coming-to-town--1353671 Problem is, you’re teaching them to believe in things that they cannot see, that are, in fact, not true. This would seem, then, to undermine faith, not strengthen it. If you allow your kids to believe in Santa Claus, you’re better off sticking with the fun rationale rather than some misguided belief that it will somehow help have faith in God.
But the fun rationale is fraught with its own difficulties. It should go without saying that whether something is fun says nothing about whether it is ethical. And facilitating a belief in Santa Claus, whether explicitly or implicitly, is lying. People who allow their children to believe in Santa Claus must concede that they are doing something dishonest.
I first consider and reject an argument that lying to children is always permissible. Then I outline the theoretical framework I will use in determining
the permissibility of lying to children about Santa Claus.
Since lying in general is wrong, it would be wrong to take the chance of increasing the tendency of a child to lie when another option is available
without this tendency and with many of the same advantages.
Christ-Mass is a Lie-Thou Shall NOT LIE
Two key figures in the origin of Christmas are Nimrod, a great grandson of Noah, and his mother and wife, Semiramis, also known as Ishtar and Isis. Nimrod, known in Egypt as Osiris, was the founder of the first world empire at Babel, later known as Babylon (Genesis 10:8-12; 11:1-9). From ancient sources such as the "Epic of Gilgamesh" and records unearthed by archeologists from long-ruined Mesopotamian and Egyptian cities, we can reconstruct subsequent events.
After Nimrod's death (c. 2167 BC), Semiramis promoted the belief that he was a god. She claimed that she saw a full-grown evergreen tree spring out of the roots of a dead tree stump, symbolizing the springing forth of new life for Nimrod. On the anniversary of his birth, she said, Nimrod would visit the evergreen tree and leave gifts under it. His birthday fell on the winter solstice at the end of December.
A few years later, Semiramis bore a son, Horus or Gilgamesh. She declared that she had been visited by the spirit of Nimrod, who left her pregnant with the boy. Horus, she maintained, was Nimrod reincarnated. With a father, mother, and son deified, a deceptive, perverted trinity was formed.
Semiramis and Horus were worshipped as "Madonna and child." As the generations passed, they were worshipped under other names in different countries and languages. Many of these are recognizable: Fortuna and Jupiter in Rome; Aphrodite and Adonis in Greece; and Ashtoreth/Astarte and Molech/Baal in Canaan.
During the time between Babel and Christ, pagans developed the belief that the days grew shorter in early winter because their sun-god was leaving them. When they saw the length of the day increasing, they celebrated by riotous, unrestrained feasting and orgies. This celebration, known as Saturnalia, was named after Saturn, another name for Nimrod.
Read more: http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Topical.show/RTD/CGG/ID/773/Osiris.htm#ixzz17elJh9ok
Do you really think that it is appropriate for Christians to be indulging in deeply pagan practices? Just because we have slapped the name of "Jesus" on them does that make them okay?
It is time for Christians to wake up and to learn the real history of Christmas.
No Christian should be celebrating this pagan holiday.
Before you had an excuse because nobody has ever taught you these things.
But now you know.
Back in Egypt, Isis lay in the form of a hawk upon the dead body of Osiris and thus miraculously conceived her son Horus. Or she left the coffin at a place in Egypt while she went to see Horus. The evil Set found the body of Osiris and tore it into fourteen pieces, and scatted them. Isis painstakingly sought the parts of Osiris’s body and Isis and Horus put them together. As the wings of Isis fluttered over the corpse, Ra then reanimated him, and Osiris was resurrected. But, to confuse Set, Isis effected to have each part buried where she found it, which is why there were fourteen graves of Osiris in Egypt. But she could not find a penis which the fishes had swallowed, and had to make a synthetic one to conceive, in this version, their child Horus. Osiris then reigned as the king of the dead while Horus reigned on earth. At the core of this myth is a doctrine of a beneficent god slain by the powers of darkness and rising again from the dead.
DREAMING OF A WHITE XXXXXX-MASS
Phallus or Penis Worship has been incorporated into virtually every facet of our lives. Every day we are subjected to signs, symbols and customs that in some ironic way have their bases ('roots' or origins) in the worship of fertility, or genitalia, (both male and female, but predominately male). The whole of humanity has been covertly trained to accept this worship as a part of everyday life. However, now is the time for everyone to wake up and take a nice long look at what is, and has been for centuries laid out for all to view. O Come All Ye Faithful!!!!!!!!!
www.downloads.themotivationalcafe.com
/phallus-1.html
REPENT Christ-Mass is a BIG LIE
Hi Yosef!
Welcome to the mix!
Regarding the first few pages of this blog, I have been a bit preoccupied for a while and have not dug in to the topics very deep. But, as I think you may be seeing, we cover some good stuff in the archived posts. I hope you enjoy them.
One of the items demanding my attention has been writing my newest book, "Amazing Grace, One Mormon's View of the Atonement." Which I hope to post in the next few days.
Thanks,
David
Hi David,
Thanks for the welcome. I kinda wondered about my comment on the mystical content of the front page. You seem like no offense was taken, none was intended. I didn’t disagree with your posts there, I was just looking for more direct mystical content as I was checking out your blog. Yes, I am enjoying the archives. You got a pretty devoted follower/stalker on your hands I see. It doesn’t seem like many of the earlier followers still comment. That is too bad. I liked what most of them had to say. It’s often hard to find the right time and place to discuss the gospel in this way with other LDS folks, much less LDS folks who know enough about such things as to feel comfortable discussing them in a constructive way. I’m glad you made a time and a place. Thanks brother. Maybe once your book is done, some of them will come back. I have always enjoyed a good group of students, devoted to supporting one another in our spiritual journey to gain adhesion with the Creator. I started reading your book on Mormon Mysticism. It’s good so far. I wish you well on your new book. I how exciting it is to be able to have the time and resources that allow you to get your personal understanding written, polished, and presented to others. I wish you well.
Shalom
Yosef
The TRUTH and man's new "gospel" are two different things- because of Pride of Tradition and much learning, TRUTH can be seen as an attack on our special "gospel" and much learning- Matter of fact all TRUTH is the real GOSPEL the Good News of GOD.
When TRUTH is seen as an attack on your Religion, that is steeped in vain Traditions and False worship of "other" gods some one is not FREE.
Jesus spoke in parables but was not the Riddler-
The most plain and simple TRUTH is Plain and Simple.
Comparing the TRUTH to an onion only leaves you with many tears and nothing left when the layers are Gone.
TRUTH is rightly compared to light, and the brighter the TRUTH becomes the better we see and Darkness flees from the light because the light encompasses the darkness.
Real light comes from GOD and the Holy Spirit, not from Gnostic Special Secret Mystical Prideful Tower Building and Climbing-
GNOSTIC Giants like Manley P Hall, Albert Pike
Aleister Crowley were of the Mystic Orders of Freemasonry and And were of the Luciferian Camp.
GOD saves, Jesus = Jehovah the Saviour
Emmanuel = GOD with US
Reading old oral stories of drunken Jesus Denying Jews (Qubalah) is not the Gospel- for one thing ooopppss they Forgot JESUS you GNOW-The Way, The Truth, The Life, The Light.
Jer 13:9 Thus saith the Lord, After this manner will I mar the apride of Judah, and the great pride of erusalem.
10This evil people, which refuse to hear my words, which walk in the imagination of their heart, and walk after other gods, to serve them, and to worship them, shall even be as this girdle, which is good for nothing.
11For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the Lord; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.
Jer 13:13 Thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will fill all the inhabitants of this land, even the kings that sit upon David’s throne, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, with drunkenness.
14And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the Lord: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.
15¶Hear ye, and give ear; be not proud: for the Lord hath spoken.
16Give glory to the Lord your God, before he cause darkness, and before your feet stumble upon the dark mountains, and, while ye look for light, he turn it into the shadow of death, and make it gross darkness.
17But if ye will not hear it, my soul shall weep in secret places for your pride; and mine eye shall weep sore, and run down with tears, because the Lord’s flock is carried away captive.
Jer 14: The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.
15Therefore thus saith the Lord concerning the prophets that prophesy in my name, and I sent them not, yet they say, Sword and famine shall not be in this land; By sword and famine shall those prophets be consumed.
16And the people to whom they prophesy shall be cast out in the streets of Jerusalem because of the famine and the sword; and they shall have none to bury them, them, their wives, nor their sons, nor their daughters: for I will pour their wickedness upon them.
QUBALAH is Tree and Fruit of Those who rejected GOD The Jewish Religion Became FALSE Babylon Religion- quit worshiping the Jews and their False Religion- They killed Jesus and have NOT repented YET and Many aspects of their Religion is False-
Jews like to pretend the Have Authority over the truth -Jews killed the TRUTH-that is their Religion
and until they Repent, The would Kill God Again
Santa Claus? Joseph Smith? The Equinoxes? Solstice?
Really? Freemasonry? Joseph Smith???? HMMMMMMMMMMM
Merry Christ-Mass- I Hope you all receive this in the "true" spirit of X-mass
The two vertical lines touching the sides of the circle are represented to the Blue Lodge Mason as "the Holy Saints John." By this is meant John the Baptist and John the Apostle. In reality, the two vertical lines represent the Summer and Winter Solstices, the shortest and longest nights of the year, respectively. These nights are, and have been since antiquity, important periods for pagan worship.
SO WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH JOSEPH SMITH?????????????
Concerning these two lines, Albert Mackey has written ("Symbolism of Freemasonry," page 352), "The lines touching the circle in the symbol of the point within a circle are said to represent St. John the Baptist and St. John the Evangelist, but they really refer to the solstitial points, Cancer and Capricorn, in the Zodiac." The New OSIRIS? The New SUN? a"god"
SO Guess Who is The Freemasonic SON of the Equinoxes Solstices????? Santa Clause? NO
Here is a Hint. HE was Born on the Shortest Day of the YEAR? Osiris? SUN Worship Not SON Worship-
And HE died on the Longest Day of the YEAR-
The Equinoxes Solstice Phases are in three Days From Season to Season- SON worship-
Hark the Herald Angles Sing Glory to The New Born Masonic KING? Masonic Sun worship
Born Dec 23rd (Shortest Day)
Died June 27th ( Longest Day)
www.downloads.themotivationalcafe.com/phallus-2.html
The Equinoxes are The Times to talk to ANGELS
Remember the 4 seasons, directions, and quarters
An equinox happens each year at two specific moments in time (rather than two whole days), when there is a location (the subsolar point) on the Earth's equator, where the center of the Sun can be observed to be vertically overhead, occurring around March 20/21 and September 22/23 each year
PAGAN SPIRIT GATHERING JUNE 27 SUMMER SOLSTICE EVENT
Most ancient and advanced nations, such as Babylon, Egypt, Persia, Greece, Roman and England, to name a few, believe December 25th was a solemn day and celebrated it. This celebration on December 25 was associated with the worship of the sun and the winter solstice.the sundial the sun appears to stop moving for three days (December 22, 23, 24).
If someone says to you this year, "Remember the true meaning of Christmas," then ask them whose true meaning they are referring to. Then celebrate it or not, in your own way, even the original Pagan ways if you would like. Christians themselves can't seem to figure out if it is OK to celebrate a Pagan-based Christmas or not, but just because some Christians stole your holiday long ago doesn't mean you have to stop celebrating, or celebrate their way. I myself will enjoy this Christmas, I hope peacefully, with those who I love, and who love me. That is Christmas to me.
Happy Holidays to all!"
http://old.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id696/pg1/index.html
The Significance of Idolatry in the Soul’s Progression
(comments on idolatry, LDS, and a bit of Christmas)
1. What is idolatry? In a literal sense, idolatry/idol means:
“IDOLATRY
“The worship of idols or an excessive attachment or devotion to anything.
Thou shalt have no other gods before me, Ex. 20:3 (Mosiah 12:35; 13:12–13). If thou walk after other gods, ye shall surely perish, Deut. 8:19. Stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry, 1 Sam. 15:23. Thou hast discovered thyself to another than me, Isa. 57:8. Thou hast praised the gods of silver and gold, Dan. 5:23. Ye cannot serve God and mammon, Matt. 6:24. Covetousness is idolatry, Col. 3:5. Children, keep yourselves from idols, 1 Jn. 5:21. Wo unto those that worship idols, 2 Ne. 9:37. The idolatry of the people of Nephi brought upon them their wars and destructions, Alma 50:21. Every man walketh after the image of his own god, D&C 1:16. Let them labor with their own hands that there be no idolatry, D&C 52:39. Abraham's father was led away by idolatry, Abr. 1:27.”
(LDS Guide to the Scriptures | I Idolatry:Entry)
“Idol.
“There are some ten different Hebrew words so translated in the KJV, representing the various kinds of objects of worship among heathen nations. Idolatry generally meant nature worship in one form or another; e.g., in Egypt the chief objects of worship were the sun and other heavenly bodies, the Nile, and sacred animals, especially the bull. Ra, the sun god, was the active power in creation and giver of life.
"Among the nations of Canaan and W. Syria Baal was the sun god or source of life, and Ashtoreth was the corresponding female deity. In addition each nation had its own peculiar god to whom it ascribed its prosperity and misfortunes (e.g., see Chemosh; Molech). The idolatry into which the Israelites so often fell consisted either in making images that stood for Jehovah, e.g., the calves of Jeroboam (1 Kgs. 12:28); or in worshipping, in addition to Jehovah, one of the gods of the heathen nations around them (1 Kgs. 11:7, 33; 2 Kgs. 21:3–6; 23:10; Jer. 7:31; Ezek. 20:26–49), such idolatry being some form of nature worship, which encouraged as a rule immoral practices.” (LDS Bible Dictionary | I Idol:Entry)
It is definitely clear that excessive attachment or devotion to anything is considered worship, and unless that attachment and devotion is for God only, it is idolatry. Several things are blatantly associated with idolatry, such as: stubbornness, money or business, covetousness, private interpretation, personal goals, and idleness. Moses said: “And it shall be, if thou do at all forget the LORD thy God, and walk after other gods, and serve them, and worship them, I testify against you this day that ye shall surely perish. As the nations which the LORD destroyeth before your face, so shall ye perish; because ye would not be obedient unto the voice of the LORD your God” (Deuteronomy 8:19-20). The consequence of idolatry leads to being destroyed as place is made for another to gain the inheritance that was originally promised to the idolater. How will this destruction come about?
2. Greater light is shed on the intricacies of idolatry, and how the promised destruction will come about, as we look at inspired allegory:
“Ezekiel 23:1–49 . Allegory of the Two Sisters
“Ezekiel 23 tells about the idolatry of the ten tribes (Samaria) and Judah (Jerusalem). All the references to whoredoms, to other impure sexual practices, and to various parts of the female anatomy are metaphorical. These metaphors are used in the same way as those used by Hosea, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and others in which Jehovah is the husband and the nation Israel is the wife. Infidelity and fornication are similar, and both words have dual meanings. One meaning relates to marriage (adultery) and the other to worship (idolatry). Ezekiel plays these meanings against each other and draws out lessons on both. Dummelow summarized the relationships referred to in the allegory:
“‘The idolatries and foreign alliances of Jerusalem and Samaria are here described under the same strong figure which is used in c. 16. Oholah (Samaria) and Oholibah (Jerusalem) were two sisters, both seduced in Egypt in their youth ( v. 3 ), both espoused by God ( v. 4 ), and both unfaithful to Him. Samaria took as her lovers first the Assyrians ( vv. 5–7 ), and then the Egyptians ( v. 8 ), and was at length slain by the former ( vv. 9, 10 ). Jerusalem, not warned by her sister’s fate, made first the Assyrians and then the Babylonians her paramours ( vv. 11–16 ). Being alienated from the latter she has turned to her early lovers of Egypt ( vv. 17–21 ), but she will be destroyed, like her sister, by the lovers whom she has just forsaken ( vv. 22–35 ). The sin and judgment of the two sisters are described afresh ( vv. 36–49 ).’ ( Commentary, p. 507.)
“In his inspired translation, Joseph Smith made small but significant changes in Ezekiel 23:17, 22, and 28 . The sisters’ minds were turned not from their lovers (the false gods) but from God by their lovers”. (Church Education System, Old Testament Student Manual 1 Kings-Malachi, p. 276)
Idolatry is a favored intimate relationship with something other than God. For example, it is the place we seek peace, comfort, refuge, healing, etc. It may not be something inherently evil of itself, however, it is not something that is eternally lasting, and will eventually crumble. The consequence of idolatry is that the practitioner will keep what their heart desires. As they turn from God, who is everlasting, in favor of something that is capable of being destroyed, they will suffer the fate of that which they chose to favor. How can one turn to the God, whom they have come to know and trust in times of need, when they have not taken the time to come to know and trust Him in times of prosperity? Idols do not necessarily have to come in the form of tangible objects or man-made commodities. Frequently people choose to have their most intimate relationships with hobbies, romantic fantasy, ideals, emotions, escapism, fear, rebelliousness, self righteousness, pride, personal successes, etc. Although it is crucial for our mortal experience for us to be involved in relationships, any semblance of relationship that takes precedence in one’s life above their relationship with God is idolatry. Kabbalist Rav Michael Laitman taught, “‘Love thy friend as thyself’ is enough to correct the whole world, provided that it is done in order to reach the Creator” (Rav Michael Laitman, Ph. D., with Collin Canright, The Complete Idiot’s Guide To Kabbalah, p. 268). Elder Bruce C. Hafen taught: "To develop a sufficiently independent relationship with God requires that the private world in which we dwell in communion with him transcend the other 'worlds' we inhabit—the world of work, community life, friends, family, and even relationships in the Church. As we gain experience in that private and personal world, we will become..." (Bruce C. Hafen, The Broken Heart. p. 104).
3. Looking even deeper, we can discover a key within symbols through parallelisms found within the scriptures.
Q: How was Lehi’s experience different from those who entered into the path in 1 Nephi 8:21?
A: Lehi received the Holy Spirit and accepted an invitation to follow Him (v. 5-7). As the mist of darkness enshrouded him, Lehi prayed and relied upon the mercy of the Lord (v. 7-8). Lehi’s vision was then opened up to were he obtained fresh views of the world and of the love of God (v. 9-10, see also LDS Bible Dictionary: Repentance). Lehi chose the love of God. Because Lehi was accustomed to following the Holy Spirit and relying upon the mercy of the Lord (the Atonement), he was prepared to receive the love of God with joy and appreciation. He was overwhelmed with joy, sweetness, and light (v. 11-12). Lehi was able to successfully invite others to partake of the beauty that he partook of through his personal testimony. Lehi invited them to come and partake of the fruit, not to enter into the path or cling to the rod (v. 12-18). On the other hand, the other group sought the path that led to the tree whereas Lehi received and accepted an invitation to follow the Holy Spirit (v. 21-22, 5-7). When the mist of darkness enshrouded this group, they did not pray or rely upon the mercy of the Lord (the Atonement) and they fell away and were lost (v. 23). Ironically, this group entered into the path or steps of gospel ordinances and received a commandment to receive the Holy Ghost (2 Nephi 31:9, 17-18). Their trust was in the ordinances themselves, they did not hold fast to the word of God, follow the Holy Spirit, or rely upon the Atonement. Their sole reliance was upon the performance of ordinances. Instead of being a blessing that prepared them to rely upon the Atonement and receive the love of God, the opposition provided by the mist of darkness destroyed them. They crumbled with their idolization of ordinances.
Q: How was Lehi’s experience different from those who clung to the rod in verse 1 Nephi 8:24?
A: Lehi received the Holy Spirit and accepted an invitation to follow Him (v. 5-7). As the mist of darkness enshrouded him, Lehi prayed and relied upon the mercy of the Lord (v. 7-8). Lehi’s vision was then opened up to were he obtained fresh views of the world and of the love of God (v. 9-10, see also LDS Bible Dictionary: Repentance). Lehi chose the love of God. Because Lehi was accustomed to following the Holy Spirit and relying upon the mercy of the Lord (the Atonement), he was prepared to receive the love of God with joy and appreciation. He was overwhelmed with joy, sweetness, and light (v. 11-12). Lehi was able to successfully invite others to partake of the beauty that he partook of through his personal testimony. Lehi invited them to come and partake of the fruit, not to enter into the path or cling to the rod (v. 12-18). On the other hand, the group that clung to the rod also felt after the tree instead of receiving and accepting an invitation to follow the Holy Spirit. When the mist of darkness enshrouded them, they clung onto the rod of iron with their own strength instead of praying and relying upon the mercy of the Lord (the Atonement). Instead of having their vision opened up and receiving fresh views of the world and of the love of God, they were abruptly upon the tree (v. 24). This group was not familiar with following the Holy Spirit or with mighty prayer and the Atonement, so they were not prepared to receive and enjoy the love of God. They had relied upon the arm of flesh instead Jesus Christ’s Atonement. They felt ashamed when they were finally confronted with total immersion in the love of God (v. 25). They never needed God and could not enjoy His reward. They were devastated when God’s reality faced them because they had misconceptions of the gospel of Jesus Christ. To them the word of God that they clung to was commandments, doctrines, principles, and standards (1 Nephi 11: 25) . These “safeguards” were represented by the rod of iron as a handrail. God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit were not their strength, and as they were scoffed at, they fell away and were lost (v. 26-28). They crumbled with their idolization of personal righteousness.
Q: Are ordinances, commandment, doctrines, principles, and standards important if they cannot save us or prepare us to enjoy the love of God?
A: Absolutely, we know that Lehi performed sacrifices, kept commandments, and counseled his family in doctrine and principle. His children taught about baptism and the priesthood. However, the emphasis should always be on receiving and accepting an invitation to follow the Holy Spirit and reliance upon the Atonement of Jesus Christ. It is our knowledge of God that sanctifies us and prepares us to receive the fullness of God’s love, character, and power. This formula transforms the mists of darkness in this life into priceless experiences because through them we learn to trust God and become totally reliant upon the Atonement of Jesus Christ.
Q: What about faith and works, grace and works?
A: In Lehi’s dream, he received everything through faith and by grace. His works were through the Atonement and far exceeded the other groups in his diligence. His works produced fruit meet for eternal life (John 17:3) not only for himself, but for those he invited through his testimony. Even though his works exceeded the other groups, he could attribute nothing to himself. It all came through Christ. His works included: receiving and accepting an invitation to follow the Holy Spirit, prayer, relying upon the mercy of God (the Atonement), choosing the love of God over the world, being moved with compassion to share the blessings of God with others, testifying and inviting his family to come partake of the same blessing he received, and rejoicing in God with the utmost gratitude for his life experiences.
Q: What do the two groups who felt after the tree teach us about our gospel experience?
A: It is a great warning of those who enter into the Church through the ordinance of baptism, but fail in receiving the fullness of the blessings of the gospel. They are those who put their trust in ordinances and not God. They are those who rely upon the arm of flesh to keep commandments, doctrines, principle, and standards. They are the stereotyped Latter-day Saints, those who are converted to the Church and their Mormon traditions and not to God through Christ Jesus. These are those who Jesus said were outwardly beautiful but full of dead man’s bones (Matt. 23:27). They are those who know not God.
Brigham Young taught: “Do you think that we are always going to remain the same size? I am not a stereotyped Latter-day Saint, and do not believe in the doctrine. Every year the Elders of Israel are improving and learning, and have more power, more influence with the Heavens, more power over the elements, and over diseases, and over the power of Satan, who has ruled this earth from the days of the fall until now. We have to gain power until we break the chain of the enemy. Are we going to stand still? Away with stereotyped ‘Mormons.’ I have more power than I had last year. I feel much stronger than ever before, and that too in the power of God; and I feel as though I could take the people and bring them into the presence of God, if they only hearken to counsel.” 8:185 (Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 92).
Q. Are their other types in the scriptures that follow this pattern of people choosing to cleave to God while others have chosen to worship distinctive holy things that God has used to illustrate the path to His fullness instead?
A. Yes. “And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life” (John 3:14 - 15). “NOW it came to pass in the third year of Hoshea son of Elah king of Israel, that Hezekiah the son of Ahaz king of Judah began to reign. He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan. He trusted in the LORD God of Israel; so that after him was none like him among all the kings of Judah, nor any that were before him. For he clave to the LORD, and departed not from following him, but kept his commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses” (2 Kings 18:1, 4-6).
Just as the brazen serpent was broken in pieces, so will the lives of those be who do not learn how to gain adhesion with God through the gospel of Jesus Christ.
4. More specifically, how does idolatry effect our mystical, theosophical, eternal progression, and spiritual ascension? In other words, is there yet a deeper teaching on how idolatry effects our ability to gain adhesion with God on the most personal and inner level?
“The Pit and the Mountain
“Imagine a deep and dangerous pit in the center of your community. Your community has been given the commandment to stay out of the pit. Assuming no other commandment is given, it is the nature of almost all mankind [that] this one commandment would result in almost everyone falling into the pit sooner or later. Curiosity, rebellion, peer pressure, pride or some other vanity would lead to risk-taking around the pit and inevitable falling. That is the nature of most of us during the teenage years, and many of us right into adulthood.
“Those disposed to being ‘protectors of virtue’ (i.e., busybodies) would post signs nearby to try to prevent people falling into the pit. Yet while posting signs, such ‘protectors of virtue’ oftentimes fall into temptation themselves, and many of them would fall, too. Of course, later, the ‘protectors’ would add a handrail. Other precautions would follow. But these would do no good, for if the only commandment is a ‘thou shalt not,’ then the failings would follow, while the precautions taken would invite further curiosity by the unconvinced, or rebellious, or curious. Precautions at one end invite further risk at the other, since it [now] appears safer to take the risk.
“The only sure way to prevent you from falling into the pit would be to give you something positive to do that will take you in another direction. Climbing a mountain would keep you so far from the pit there is no danger of falling. If you are headed away from the pit, you can never fall into it” (Denver C. Snuffer, JR., The Second Comforter: Conversing with The Lord Through the Veil, pp. 310-311).
4. More specifically, how does idolatry effect our mystical, theosophical, eternal progression, and spiritual ascension? In other words, is there yet a deeper teaching on how idolatry effects our ability to gain adhesion with God on the most personal and inner level?
“The Pit and the Mountain
“Imagine a deep and dangerous pit in the center of your community. Your community has been given the commandment to stay out of the pit. Assuming no other commandment is given, it is the nature of almost all mankind [that] this one commandment would result in almost everyone falling into the pit sooner or later. Curiosity, rebellion, peer pressure, pride or some other vanity would lead to risk-taking around the pit and inevitable falling. That is the nature of most of us during the teenage years, and many of us right into adulthood.
“Those disposed to being ‘protectors of virtue’ (i.e., busybodies) would post signs nearby to try to prevent people falling into the pit. Yet while posting signs, such ‘protectors of virtue’ oftentimes fall into temptation themselves, and many of them would fall, too. Of course, later, the ‘protectors’ would add a handrail. Other precautions would follow. But these would do no good, for if the only commandment is a ‘thou shalt not,’ then the failings would follow, while the precautions taken would invite further curiosity by the unconvinced, or rebellious, or curious. Precautions at one end invite further risk at the other, since it [now] appears safer to take the risk.
“The only sure way to prevent you from falling into the pit would be to give you something positive to do that will take you in another direction. Climbing a mountain would keep you so far from the pit there is no danger of falling. If you are headed away from the pit, you can never fall into it” (Denver C. Snuffer, JR., The Second Comforter: Conversing with The Lord Through the Veil, pp. 310-311).
On the most personal and mystical level, the community symbolizes the individual, while the pit symbolizes egoism, and the mountain symbolizes God’s invitation to us to gain adhesion with Him. Although the story emphasizes the pit, it is the purpose of God for us to climb the mountain whether the pit was there or not. Many Christians foolishly believe that the Atonement was introduced as an answer to the consequences of sins committed in mortality, and therefore devote their lives to battle sin and evil. However, it was not for sin that Christ was the “Lamb slain from the foundation of the world” (Revelation 13:8, Moses 7:47). It was God’s purpose that “whom he did foreknow [His spirit children], he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son” (Romans 8:29), which is also His image. For us to believe that we can overcome our own egoism/sinful nature, is a lie and a distraction from the real prize. No matter how devoted we are, no matter how much we beat ourselves up and coerce ourselves, no matter how many safeguards we establish in our lives, we cannot get rid of the pit. It will always be there. “For it must needs be, that there is an opposition in all things” (2 Nephi 2:11). Even as the Godhead enjoys freedom of choice, there is opposition in all things, without it there could be no freedom of choice. The only surefire way to overcome the pit is to climb the mountain and unite with He who does not succumb to His own egoism. Our devotion to the pit, whether as friends or enemies, is idolatry, because it is not the same thing as climbing the mountain. Our devotion to the pit is the same as cleaving unto our own pious ideologies, and favoring them above union with God.
Idolatries come in all shapes and sizes, external and internal. Ultimately, every form of idolatry is spiritually rooted in the choice to not diligently and deliberately grow into oneness with the Almighty God. Anything that interferes with our ability to gain adhesion with the Creator, interferes with our ability to utilize the Atonement of Jesus Christ and therefore, makes His sacrifice in our behalf for nothing. Since idolatry is committed as a direct result of our innermost desires and our deliberate choices, our participation in such activity reveals our deliberate rejection of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and the invitation from God to gain eternal life. No matter how seemingly deep or hidden within, our eternal demise will be the result of our own making.
In these discussions of idolatry and Christmas, it has been interesting to me that it was magi (mystics) from the east who were lead to the Christ-child by divine intervention. They traveled far, and brought gifts to honor the Majesty of the Son of God. They could have waited until He was grown so as to obtain great mysteries through instruction, but they sought after Him as soon as they could to obtain Him however they could get Him. They understood how important it was to actually cleave unto the being of God instead of having information about Him. But it was those who were extremely strict in religious safeguards and “thou shalt not” mentality, who were the ones who were not only unprepared to enjoy His presence and love, but eventually sought to extinguish Him in favor of their devout lifestyles.
It is our personal choice to either climb the mountain or focus on the pit that will determine whether we advocate the gospel of adhesion with God through Christ or advocate some form of idolatry. I for one am eternally grateful for the Restoration of the gospel in these last days.
The Prophet Joseph Smith taught: “In the first place, I wish to go back to the beginning—to the morn of creation. There is the starting point for us to look to, in order to understand and be fully acquainted with the mind, purposes and decrees of the Great Elohim, who sits in yonder heavens as he did at the creation of this world. It is necessary for us to have an understanding of God himself in the beginning. If we start right, it is easy to go right all the time; but if we start wrong, we may go wrong, and it be a hard matter to get right… If men do not comprehend the character of God, they do not comprehend themselves…My first object is to find out the character of the only wise and true God, and what kind of a being he is; and if I am so fortunate as to be the man to comprehend God, and explain or convey the principles to your hearts, so that the Spirit seals them upon you… I am going to enquire after God; for I want you all to know him, and to be familiar with him” (Joseph Smith, TPJS, p. 345).
How profound this statement of the Prophet Joseph, who teaches that the journey up the mountain and the journey to rediscovering the actual roots of one’s beginnings with God from pre-mortal times, is in reality, one and the same. In order to truly climb the mountain unto adhesion with God, we must rediscover and learn to continue progressing in our original relationship with Him as built upon our root intelligence. It is, in fact, the purpose of physical creation, to provide God’s children a place for them to continue the process they began before the foundations of the world. We possessed opposing forces then too, but made it this far by choosing to climb the mountain instead of trying to defeat the pit.
Yosef, your comments are respected and you seem to have mental and intellectual maturity, you flow with one of a photographic memory. Enough of the compliments, I would invite to have a civil discourse on a few Subjects that are my Issues That I Have with Mormonisms. I would like the Issues restricted to the issues and not personal attacks- The issues for me are About the TRUTH not me, I May well be Crazy but that will not change the TRUTH about Anything, I make all concessions to being wrong, uneducated, fooled, blind, deaf, a cut and paster, and of Darkened mind, along with lacking in education, and lacking discipline. even call me dark and Evil.
I say all that so as to focus on Issues and not me.
I am still Mormon, went on a Mission -but I see Mormonisms as Being something other than the GOSPEL, If you read the 192 post in"HOUSEKEEPING"
you will see most of my Issues and Post.
If you do not wish to respond I will respect that,
also I tend to Like to keep my issues in the HouseKeeping section so as not to pollute the other Pages. I would like to deal with the Issues one or two at a Time, but I will list some of them. Please do not pretend to be an Apostle unless you are.
This "reasoning together" will push the TRUTH to the top and will let others look at the Issues and see how the TRUTH displays. I also might learn something!!!
Here are the Issues-
The Fall of Adam-Gods wish?
Freemasonry-secret combination?
Gnosticism-Unique Luciferian Mormon Belief
Did God lie- and really want Adam to Fall?
Did Lucifer Lie- Or was he help Adam's Exaltation?
Did God Give Confused Commands-Do-Do Not?
Polygamy-Mormon Style in New Testament Times
Things Egyptian, BOM POGP
Zion in USA
Is Freemasonry The Gospel?
Is Freemasonry a Luciferian/Gnostic Temple Cult?
What is Freemasonry?
Who sits at Freemasonry's Capital and Head?
What are Grand Lodges?
Why were the Mormon Excommunicated from MASONRY?
What are Clandestine Lodges?
Who is the Most Worshipful Master?
Why is Freemasonry of Cain and Tubal Cain?
Is Freemasonry the Luciferian Initation?
Do Luciferians swear in the name of The LORD?
Was Joseph Smith a Freemason?
Okay so there it Is lets first deal with the fall in Its aspects as reflected in mormonism.
1. Was the Partaking of the Tree of knowledge God's wish? and a "second" command in conflict with HIS own trustworthy Nature? Multiply and Replenish
2. Is God Pure and Holy? Did he give conflicted commandments that could not Both be kept?
3. Was it God's wish that Adam would disobey His commandments and Obey Lucifer so Adam could become Exalted? if so that is Gnostic
4. Why are mormons in the Gnostic camp on the Fall? If not say so
5. Luciferians, Masons, Mormons and Satanist are Gnostic, Why did the Mormons pick the Gnostic view?
6. Why are Mormons in that Gnostic camp with Like company? Traditional Christians are not Gnostic.
Please take time to read the previous post and look at the links provided, that will lay out the ground work and from were I get some of my perspective.
The Fall and Nature of God is all related to the Fall-
Mormons have a "different" view on the subject of the Fall- Please advise me if you are defending the LDS point of View or your Own View in your responses- for now lets Focus on the Fall.
Thank you.
Anonymous
If you truly wanted answers to these questions, as you claim you do, then I would ask why you rejected the answers I gave you from the Scriptures?
It is true that I only answered the first 3, as the other 3 are non-questions, as they pose a policy, rather than stick to realities.
1. The answer to your first question is, No. That is as a full one question.
First it must be realized that God is subject to law. Adam was born perfect (I don't think I need to give quotes in this regard). To tell him to do something that would bring him into a worse state would be contrary to nature. And to command him to transgress would be contrary to his physical state.
Consequently God was forced by his truthful nature to give advice not to do anything that was also contrary to Adam's spiritual happiness (even though the end result would bring an improved spiritual state eventually, and an improved physical state thousands of years later).
2. Yes. Yet both were separate concepts, and both were correct for the concept they are. Eternal laws make it that we must be having children for a fulness of joy. And eternal laws make it that we don't advise people to do something that will make them spiritually worse off.
No. It wasn't God's wish that Adam would obey Satan. It was God's wish that Adam would err. That it also happened to be in Satan's interest doesn't make it Satan's commandments. If you used that logic you would have to conclude that we came to earth so that Satan can get us to follow him rather than God. So your gnostic questions have no foundation.
LDS Priesthood Manual- All quoted Mormon sources.
When Adam and Eve were placed in the Garden of Eden, they were not yet mortal. In this state, “they would have had no children” (2 Nephi 2:23). There was no death. They had physical life because their spirits were housed in physical bodies made from the dust of the earth (see Moses 6:59; Abraham 5:7). They had spiritual life because they were in the presence of God. They had not yet made a choice between good and evil.
Great Blessings Resulted from the Transgression
How does the Fall provide opportunities for us to become like our Heavenly Father?
Some people believe Adam and Eve committed a serious sin when they ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. However, latter-day scriptures help us understand that their Fall was a necessary step in the plan of life and a great blessing to all of us. Because of the Fall, we are blessed with physical bodies, the right to choose between good and evil, and the opportunity to gain eternal life. None of these privileges would have been ours had Adam and Eve remained in the garden.
After the Fall, Eve said, “Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed [children], and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient” (Moses 5:11).
“And now, behold, if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen [been cut off from the presence of God], but he would have remained in the Garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created. …
“And they would have had no children; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin.
“But behold, all things have been done in the wisdom of him who knoweth all things.
“Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy” (2 Nephi 2:22–25).
Why do you think it is important to know about the Fall and how it influences us?"
Please understand The Above is 100% Gnostic and not Traditional Christian
Mormon Believe That the Fall was a Blessing-
Following Lucifer and dis-obeying was a Great Blessing-
Mormon "god" is conflicted and "his" commands are conflicted- Mormons believe that the command be Fruitful and Multiply could not be fulfilled without breaking the commandment "do not partake of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil"
Mormons believe that (Satan, not knowing the mind of God but seeking to destroy God’s plan, came to Eve in the Garden of Eden.) Good advice of Lucifer to break one of GOD's conflicted commandments -was a blessing- 100% Freemasonic Gnosticism
Great Blessings Resulted from the Transgression
How does the Fall provide opportunities for us to become like our Heavenly Father?
Some people believe Adam and Eve committed a serious sin when they ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. However, latter-day scriptures help us understand that their Fall was a necessary step in the plan of life and a great blessing to all of us. Because of the Fall, we are blessed with physical bodies, the right to choose between good and evil, and the opportunity to gain eternal life. None of these privileges would have been ours had Adam and Eve remained in the garden. 100% Gnosticism
GOD is not conflicted-GOD did NOT tempt Adam-
It would be against the Nature of the True and Trustworthy GOD to give two commandments that are in conflict with each other.
Mormons do Not believe the fall was a Fall or a SIN- In fact Mormons Believe that Dis-obeying GOD and following Lucifer is Blessed.
Mormon Logic says "god" wished Adam would err
"It was God's wish that Adam would err"
according to Mormon Logic Adam was set up
there was no way Adam could keep one command with out breaking the Other-
Mormons are duelist and deist and gnostic- GOD is not a self opposing force or an encompassed YING and YANG
Hidden at the Root of Mormonism is Gnosticism.
At the Root Lucifer was correct and GOD's command was wrong. It was only thru dis-obeying GOD and obeying Lucifer that Man could climb up the tower to heaven- Ascending not falling- Lucifer was right GOD was Wrong- Mormons have Twisted the TRUTH
The Mormons version of 'god is NOT trustworthy-
"Great Blessings Resulted from the Transgression
How does the Fall provide opportunities for us to become like our Heavenly Father?"
Quoted from the Priesthood Manual
http://lds.about.com/od/reliefsociety/a
/manuals_rs_p.htm
"However, latter-day scriptures help us understand that their Fall was a necessary step in the plan of life and a great blessing to all of us. Because of the Fall, we are blessed with physical bodies, the right to choose between good and evil, and the opportunity to gain eternal life. None of these privileges would have been ours had Adam and Eve remained in the garden." 100% Luciferian Gnosticism
Mormons preach and uphold an Unholy and False "god" who WORD and commands are in conflict and a "god" who is Not Trustworthy- This is the a Great Sin to Preach a False "god"
James 5: 8 A double minded man (or god) is unstable in all his ways.
13Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be atempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Lucifer is the Tempter- not GOD
14But every man is atempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Lucifer lied- God did not lie
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Adam's SIN was NOT a blessing- Sin unto DEATH
Mormons say we were as cursed before the Fall and lacking all of the Blessings that Obeying Lucifer brought into the World-
If Adam followed God instead of Lucifer??????
12Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
"It was God's wish that Adam would err"
16Do not err, my beloved brethren.
17Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
I invite you to See the Father of Lights from above and forsake Mormon "god" from below ADAM FELL DOWN NOT UP
Why do you think Mormons are in the Gnostic Satanic Luciferian Freemasonic camp? Joseph Smith was a Freemason!!!!!!
Great Blessings Resulted from the Transgression
(following Lucifer and disobeying GOD)
How does the Fall (following Lucifer and disobeying GOD) provide opportunities for us to become like our Heavenly Father?
http://lds.about.com/od/reliefsociety/a/manuals_rs_p.htm
Did it ever occur to Mormons that maybe Following GOD's commands would really be blessed
lets try this Non-mormon Version v/s the Mormon Version
Arthur A. Bailey, "What Modern Revelation Teaches about Adam", Ensign, Jan. 1998, 20
Truths restored through the Prophet Joseph Smith bring Adam and Eve out of obscurity and into marvelous light, revealing they were noble and great forebears who “fell that men might be” (2 Ne. 2:25).
(OBEYING Lucifer and Disobeying GOD?)
How does the Obeying GOD provide opportunities for us to become like our Heavenly Father?
V/S Luciferian Mormon Gnostic Version
Great Blessings Resulted from the Obeying Lucifer
"How does the Obeying Lucifer provide opportunities for us to become like our Heavenly Father?
Great Blessings Resulted from the Transgression
How does the Fall provide opportunities for us to become like our Heavenly Father?"
Our Father in Heaven knew Adam and Eve would fall. In fact, the Prophet Joseph Smith taught that Adam “was made to open the way of the world” (Teachings, 12). Lehi tells us, “Adam fell that man might be; and men are, that they might have joy” (2 Ne. 2:25). Modern scripture makes it clear that it was the will of the Father, as part of his plan, that Adam and Eve transgress and thus be moved out of Eden.2 Satan thus unwittingly furthered the plan, “for he knew not the mind of God” (Moses 4:6).100% Gnostic ROOT
It was now possible for Adam and Eve to have children, which they did. Conflicted GOD
These declarations indicate that Adam and Eve saw their transgression in its proper and true perspective. They understood the necessity of the Fall and praised God for his great plan of happiness. No sorrow, regret, or shame is evident in these statements.100% Freemasonic Gnostic
1. The fall of Adam and Eve was foreseen by Heavenly Father and “was a necessary step in the plan of life and a great blessing to all of us” (Gospel Principles, p. 33). We accepted this condition in the spirit world when we supported Heavenly Father’s plan.
2. “Because of the Fall, we are blessed with physical bodies, the right to choose between good and evil, and the opportunity to gain eternal life. None of these privileges would have been ours had Adam and Eve remained(not obeyed Lucifer and disobeyed GOD) in the garden” (Gospel Principles, p. 33).
What was the first commandment given to Adam and Eve after their creation? (Moses 2:28.) Explain that Adam and Eve could not obey this commandment before the Fall. Because their bodies were not yet mortal, they could not have children.
What beautiful place did Heavenly Father prepare for Adam and Eve? (Moses 3:8–9.) What do you think it was like in the Garden?
James1: 20For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
21Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
"Lesson 4: The Fall of Adam and Eve," Primary 6: Old Testament, (1996), 13–17
Lesson 3: The Fall of Adam and Eve
"Lesson 3: The Fall of Adam and Eve," Preparing for Exaltation: Teacher’s Manual, (1998), 13
Note to the teacher
The decision of Adam and Eve to eat the forbidden fruit was not a sin, as it is sometimes considered by other Christian churches. It was a transgression—an act that was formally prohibited but not inherently wrong (see Dallin H. Oaks, in Conference Report, Oct. 1993, 98; or Ensign, Nov. 1993, 73). The Fall was necessary for us to progress toward exaltation. We have to experience mortality to become like our Father in Heaven, and Adam and Eve fulfilled their mission to make this possible. Help class members appreciate that the Fall of Adam and Eve enabled each of us to receive a body and come to earth to gain experience in choosing between good and evil.
Deceived or Made a choice of Godhood?
1 Timothy 2:14
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
2 Timothy 3:13
But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
de·ceive/diˈsēv/Verb
1. (of a person) Cause (someone) to believe something that is not true, typically in order to gain some personal advantage.
2. (of a thing) Give a mistaken impression: "the area may seem to offer nothing of interest, but don't be deceived".
de·ceit/diˈsēt/Noun
1. The action or practice of deceiving someone by concealing or misrepresenting the truth.
2. A dishonest act or statement.
Galatians 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Matthew 24:4
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
John8;44Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and bode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. 46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
Antichrist — The Guide to the Scriptures
Anyone or anything that counterfeits the true gospel plan of salvation and that openly or secretly opposes Christ. John the Revelator described the antichrist as a deceiver (1 Jn. 2:18–22; 4:3–6; 2 Jn. 1:7). The great antichrist is Lucifer, but he ...
Have class members read Genesis 1:28 (or Moses 2:28) and Genesis 2:16–17 (or Moses 3:16–17) to discover two commandments given to Adam and Eve by Heavenly Father: to multiply and replenish (fill) the earth and to refrain from eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Explain that Adam and Eve could not keep both these commandments. If they chose to eat the fruit, they would be cast out of the Garden of Eden. But if they did not eat the fruit and remained in the garden, they would not be able to have children (to “multiply and replenish the earth”). Because the Garden of Eden was a place of innocence, while Adam and Eve lived there they could not change or progress in any way, including having children (see 2 Nephi 2:22–23).
Quotation
Read or have a class member read the following statement by Elder Russell M. Nelson of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles:
“To bring the plan of happiness to fruition [fulfillment], God issued to Adam and Eve the first commandment ever given to mankind. It was a commandment to beget children. A law was explained to them. Should they eat from ‘the tree of the knowledge of good and evil’ (Genesis 2:17), their bodies would change; mortality and eventual death would come upon them. But partaking of that fruit was prerequisite to their parenthood” (in Conference Report, Oct. 1993, 46; or Ensign, Nov. 1993, 34).
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MANUALS PREPARING FOR EXALTATION: TEACHER’S MANUAL LESSON 3: THE FALL OF ADAM AND EVE
Lesson 3: The Fall of Adam and Eve
"Lesson 3: The Fall of Adam and Eve," Preparing for Exaltation: Teacher’s Manual, (1998), 13
100% Twisted Gnosticism Luciferianism
Experiencing some difficulty in posting, so I will re-post with sequence numbers. Sorry.
I guess I had better try to re-post tomorrow.
Yosef I caught some of your Post before If fell off-
I understand that you are looking for context as to who I am, to address my perspective- Let me preface by saying that None of my responses will be a personal attack- even if I use harsh quotes, pointed or Tough Scriptures.
It will only be to add to or make a Point not a personal attack-In the end we my or may not agree with each other- And I am not too smart to learn or know that I could be wrong or missing something-
Please forgive my weak or lack of writing skills-
I was raised in an inactive LDS home- I went to two churches Nazarene and Presbyterian from 6-14 years of Age- At 14 years of Age I was Baptized LDS
I liked the Joseph Smith story- and the Church saved me from my youth- At age 21 I went to the Temple as Part of Going on a Mission- I did NOT ever Like the Endowment... But I thought some day I would understand the Endowment- Also I never agreed with The "Mormon" view of the Fall- By the way there is More than One Mormon view of the Fall- I fought with the G.A.s on my mission and told them what they were teaching False doctrine- As referenced above- Anyway after coming home from my mission
I was on my quest to find the Truth about Freemasonry , Joseph Smith and the Temple- I never have agreed with the Oaths and penalties of That stuff. I do not Belong to or endorse any other religion, lets say I do not profess any religion-
I only have a Trust in God- Read the Scriptures-
for now I am In the Observe and Report mode-
I do speak my differences of My voyage thru Mormonism- Each part of Truth is Independent and interdependent - I know that- I also recommend that you read The "Consecration" post on this web site and see what I had to say there-besides fending off personal attacks- I do not know that we will ever have a meeting of the minds- but I feel like I would trust you to give me your insights- and make an Honest presentation of your views- and I give you Mine- I do not take this as a Game- This is most Serious- and I am sincere- I know that your roots run deep- it is Reflected in you Person- If we do not agree that is what it Is- but your thoughts will be respected- and seen by many- It is all about the Truth- One day I will die and have to Answer to God,
I hope and pray for Mercy and Forgiveness for us all
I hope we are standing with GOD in spite of our Humanity and weakness. God bless us all, I know I need it.
Anonymous
What you have quoted doesn't change the truth of the answers I gave you (which allowed for the conflict).
You have had the answers. Now if you are genuine it is up to you to accept them.
Doug Towers I was not really responding to you - not that I mind- I was looking for a little different approach from Yosef- I think that You and I have all ready gone enough rounds on the Issues- I was more laying out the Case for Josef-
But Doug, which Mormon View of the fall do you prefer- and how do you respond to the Gnostic gnotion of the Fall-
Question- why do Mormons fall into the Lucerfian View of the Fall-
can you at least admitt That the Mormon view is Gnostic? Luciferian?or something Else? "Are you a good witch or a Bad witch?"
Please check the post numbers at the bottom to read in chronological order. Trying to post has been hectic these past few days.
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